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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
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Just When I thought I'd Seen it All

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1370rod

12-14-2012 21:23:06




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Hope you guys don't tire of me showing broken stuff out of CASE tractors. When it seems to be a uncommon failure I'll probably post it. I posted a pic of a trans housing full of filings a couple weeks ago. I had a couple jobs more urgent to finish first. Now I had a chance to see were all those filings came from. The pins that hold the diff spider gears had worn so bad and so thin they actually broke in 3 pieces as you can see. On the bull pinions or side gears, call them what you like, have all the end teeth worn off, a good gear is there to show the difference. In my 40 yrs. of wrenching this is the most damaged one I have seen. These parts are out of a 1070. This diff assembly had to have been repaired once before because of the brass pins it contained. From the factory these tractors had steel pins. If a failure occured it was common in this area to upgrade them to brass pins from the 1170 tractors. Rod.

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4435

12-16-2012 11:21:46




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 Been there Done that got the T-shirt in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
Rod, I am familiar with this failure. My 970 made some differential noise for 100's of hours before it turned into a locker. I also frequently found a pile of metal in the filter when I serviced it (8 speed)every 200hrs. This was pre Internet so I lacked this informative forum to ask questions of.
Regardless 5K later I fixed it myself. Built a few special tools or had made and followed Elmers' advice (Elmers repair). He said to drill the diff. wheel and use a roll pin long enough to reach entirely thru the spider pins. Wish I had a digital camera back then. Tom

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Adirondack case guy

12-15-2012 15:00:12




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
An example of lack of budget in Case engineering, and R&D. A differential lock would have eliminated most of those problems, However there were major problems with differentials in early 20/2290 Tractors with difflock. That problem put us as a dealer under in 86. I will elaborate on that some other time.
Loren



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1370rod

12-15-2012 19:33:23




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to Adirondack case guy, 12-15-2012 15:00:12  
Loren, I remember a statement made by a instructor at a CASE service school at Racine in the mid 1970's. He said CASE hired some Massey Ferg. engineers when Massey pulled out of Racine. They helped in diff. design of the tractors and ever since then we have had differential issues, LOL, Rod. Quite frankly I believe the CASE diffs are adequate, but if they were abused failures were common.



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dzus

12-15-2012 08:03:54




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
We buy quite a few 930-1030-970-1070's for salvage & this is not that uncommon. Granted most are not this bad, but usually the pins have spun in the differential housing. Might run like that for quite a while, but definitely not resellable parts.



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1370rod

12-15-2012 10:41:23




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to dzus, 12-15-2012 08:03:54  
I agree, when I search through the parts at the local salvage most of the differentails have spun pins in them also, Rod.



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1370pwr in ne

12-15-2012 07:38:04




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
wow! is that the 1070 the customer brought to you because of pto problems? and did he drive it to your shop?



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1370rod

12-15-2012 10:36:27




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370pwr in ne, 12-15-2012 07:38:04  
This tractor was hauled to me because it did not move anymore, Rod.



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John Saeli

12-15-2012 05:43:00




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
There is a link in an earlier post to 1070 parts on e-bay that includes the side gears. The seller goes by Marty. I'm told, he strips tractors down, offers the parts, & what doesn't sell, goes into dumpsters. Earlier this year, I e-mailed him 3 times & offered to buy unsold CASE parts, but he never answered back.



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KEN IND.

12-15-2012 04:44:46




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
OUCH!!!!!!!!



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Mathias NY

12-15-2012 04:23:21




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
Just curious, why is brass considered an upgrade? It"s a softer material and will wear faster than steel.



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1370rod

12-15-2012 06:14:29




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to Mathias NY, 12-15-2012 04:23:21  
When tractors with the steel pins encountered a lot of wheel slippage causing the spider gears to spin to much the gears and pins would sieze together. Then the roll pins securing pins would shear letting them turn in the diff wheel destroying that also. But theres really nothing we can do to bulletproof the tractor, I have to work on the owner, LOL, Rod.



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Olddog

12-15-2012 03:27:33




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
Two different size tires?
Plowing' one wheel in the furrow?
Loader duty? Driving around in circles?
Generally, spider gears don't even turn when driving straight, and only a little, when going around corners.
Spinning one side, other wheel stopped, makes them turn the fastest. Stabbing the brake while spinning one side would probably momentarily load them the most.



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1370rod

12-15-2012 06:01:40




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to Olddog, 12-15-2012 03:27:33  
The only thing the owner does that would cause a problem is moldboard plowing. I noticed durring teardown there is fluid in the furrow tire but almost nothing in the land tire and the brake is burnt to the point its junk. Everything is making me believe there was a lot of spinning occuring when he was plowing. Rod.



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dboll

12-15-2012 19:49:23




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-15-2012 06:01:40  
doesn't he know the weight is required in the land wheel?



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1370rod

12-16-2012 08:59:46




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to dboll, 12-15-2012 19:49:23  
I asked if he knew about the fluid difference, he did not. As people that have to repair things others damage, we know some operators back-up, drop the pin in and go with out any thought of proper set-up or operation. Rod.



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D-C-741

12-14-2012 21:38:48




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:23:06  
We have a 1070 that Has Some thing Wrong in the Same Area.We think it sounds like Gears Jumping over Gears.Has a set of the older Armstrong Radials there a little to good in the Traction area/There great pulling tires .I hope it doesnt have the same truble"s as this you are fixing.



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1370rod

12-14-2012 21:52:39




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to D-C-741, 12-14-2012 21:38:48  
When ever you hear a sound that makes you think gears are jumping, you are probably hearing something that can be a serious problem. There are several areas that can cause that. I won't speculate on any, but would suggest getting that checked out before using it somemore. Rod.



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D-C-741

12-15-2012 05:49:35




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to 1370rod, 12-14-2012 21:52:39  
We just park at the silo blower, till we get time to get apart to get it fixed.



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John Saeli

12-15-2012 06:16:25




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 Re: Just When I thought I'd Seen it All in reply to D-C-741, 12-15-2012 05:49:35  
Good traction didn't cause the problem depicted by 1370rod above. Unless you drained & changed the tranny fluid, and changed the filters, you're damaging your 1070 with metal circulating throughout the system, judging by the noise you descibe.



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