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Propane starting aid?

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DKase

12-08-2012 17:54:06




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Working on a 580C that has what looks like a propane starting aid. Cable in the dash opens a valve from a small camp stove propane tank and runs it into the intake manifold through a small oriface. Anyone have any experience with one of these?




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phil tibbetts

02-02-2015 11:30:25




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to DKase, 12-08-2012 17:54:06  
Napa has the replacements, they are ether not propane. Take the old one with you as there are 2 different thread sizes, most common is the same as propane.



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Jimmie D. Phelps

12-09-2012 14:58:36




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to DKase, 12-08-2012 17:54:06  
Are you talking about a propane starting aid for a diesel or Gas? For my 930 Diesel I took out the gloplug and put in a pipe with a cap on it..I take the cap off and than crank over the engine and when it tries to start without ether I than spray ether in the pipe( always engine turning over). When it starts I put the cap back on. On John deere 410 backhoe I use a hose to the aircleaner and do the same process as the 930. (I have done this for over 40 years and never hurt the engine) I never thought of propane... I think the propane tank on the 4010 was not for starting but with a valve added some propane into the intake man. to aid power on hills or pull downs in the field. They used this system on lots of old IH WD-9 and IH 600"s tractors around here. OH Yea! I heard a lot of guys use WD-40 to aid starting Diesels in cold weather. Years ago on my Propane LA I used gas through one of the plugs on the intake man. When cold the LA"s vacium wasn"t enough to open the propane valve in the reg., but the gas would ignight and than enough vacium to open the valve and it run good than. If ether is not good for starting why did Case put ether starter kits on my 4690,2390,2590,9230 and I think in my 1470. all tractors I have or have owned. My JD410 backhoe has this too but I like the hose system better.

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paul f

12-09-2012 06:36:30




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to DKase, 12-08-2012 17:54:06  
Military multifuel engines had cold weather starting aids (pre-heaters) that sprayed fuel directly into the intake manifold against an igniter so that you had a blowtorch like flame inside the manifold. (Sort of like your home oil-burner). They worked pretty well, but at higher altitudes they burned off so much oxygen the engine really wouldn't run when they were in use. You fired up the preheater waited a bit then started cranking her. When she started to cough and sputter turn off the preheater and she would normally run.

I wonder if the propane tank could have performed the same purpose, if there was an igniter on the other side of the orifice

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eldo case

12-09-2012 06:30:43




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to DKase, 12-08-2012 17:54:06  
Worked for MoDOT for 29 years as a field mechanic and this is the units they used.

http://www.quickstart-ether.com/



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dboll

12-09-2012 05:48:46




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to DKase, 12-08-2012 17:54:06  
DK- I had a bottle of either like that, probably got it with some stuff at a farm sale, if I can find it you can have it, I will try to look today.



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Mike in Mn.

12-08-2012 19:21:53




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to DKase, 12-08-2012 17:54:06  
In the 60's 70's 80' either injectors were very popular on trucks, when I worked fleet maint. they all had them. The bottle was the same as the tall skinny propane tanks, I don't know if the threads were the same though. They had a tee handle in the cab and gave a metered shot, get er spinning and give er a shot and most of them would fire, sometimes it took a second one to keep em running in very cold weather. They dissapeared in the 90's when everything went to glow plugs etc. John Deere and Ford tractors, industrial anyway had injectors that a can of starting fluid fit right into. They were all plumbed with a line right into the intake manifold, if you had enough battery to turn them they would fire.

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MasseyHarrisGuy

12-08-2012 18:28:48




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to DKase, 12-08-2012 17:54:06  
OK, dumb question. I have heard of using propane instead of ether for starting diesels, They said it was better for the engine. What would happen if a propane bottle was used instead of the hard to find ether bottle? I had one heck of a time finding an ether bottle for my 1840 skidsteer. I asked the mechanics at the local IH dealer and they just looked at me like I had three eyes. Both, about the ether bottle and wanting to use a propane bottle.
Frank

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Indiana Ken

12-09-2012 17:00:19




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to MasseyHarrisGuy, 12-08-2012 18:28:48  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Propane has a very high octane rating, some where around 110. Diesels are the opposite of gasoline engines. For good starting and smooth running they want fuel with a high cetane rating. Cetane is the opposite of octane. Ether has very low octane and therefore is the better choice for a starting aid in diesels.



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casecollectorsc

12-08-2012 19:03:38




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to MasseyHarrisGuy, 12-08-2012 18:28:48  
Years ago neighbors ran a (gulp!) 4020 JD with a 100 pound propane bottle on the front. Don't know what they used for a orifice but it was one helluva pullin 4020!



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dboll

12-08-2012 19:34:02




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to casecollectorsc, 12-08-2012 19:03:38  
Those 4020's are sure nice tractors. A 930 will out pull an early to mid 4020 but the jd is sure alot nicer to drive.



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j hikemper

12-09-2012 09:04:10




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to dboll, 12-08-2012 19:34:02  
yes the4020 deer is as nimble in the barn lot as a 430 case ,, the 930 is like drivin around a 2 story house ..LOL ,.



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mEl

12-09-2012 05:46:26




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to dboll, 12-08-2012 19:34:02  
Doug, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. the JD had great steering, brakes and hydraulics, you can't deny that if u've spent any time on the seat.
That being said, the low rpm Case engine is superior in longevity and a lot less thirsty and JD's lack of low speed torque drove me crazy when operating a 4440. The torque dropoff was dramatic at 1400 rpm, yuh might as well have pulled the stop cable if headed uphill. Probably if you had never experienced Case's torque you wouldn't know the difference. The famed JD powershift was at least as jerky between certain ranges as the rps 34.
There are millions in use and all makes have theirshortcomings, just depends what you are willing to live with.

mEl
This post was edited by mEl at 05:47:30 12/09/12.

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dboll

12-09-2012 15:51:34




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to mEl, 12-09-2012 05:46:26  
yeah the 404/466 jd engines were fuel drinking gutless wonders with no torque, if they had a 451 or 504 then they would have had something, I'm always impressed with my 1570 when I pull out on the road with 1000 bushels of shell corn , drop it into 4-1 and with a cloud of black smoke off we go!



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Bob/wis

12-08-2012 19:03:29




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to MasseyHarrisGuy, 12-08-2012 18:28:48  
Check for them at truck stops or large truck service centers. Some semis used that set up.
Bob



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RGMartin

12-08-2012 17:57:45




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to DKase, 12-08-2012 17:54:06  
You sure it isn't an ether bottle?



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mEl

12-08-2012 18:17:06




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 Re: Propane starting aid? in reply to RGMartin, 12-08-2012 17:57:45  
Yes RG, it is an ether botttle tho it is the same style as a propane torch bottle. Case used that systen a few years on the backhoes. It is easy to see how it could be confused with a torch cannister.
mEl
This post was edited by mEl at 18:21:14 12/08/12.



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