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190xt

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RJC

07-27-2004 20:19:22




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Friend just bought a 71 190xt. Has 540 and 1000 pto but he says it doesn't have live pto. Is this right? I'm not an AC person.




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Ralph

07-28-2004 19:13:41




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 Re: 190xt in reply to RJC, 07-27-2004 20:19:22  
Man I think this finally got straightened out, but there is some really poor, misleading, bad and just plain wrong information here. Plenty of people know AC tractors way better than I do, but I don't think some of you ever even saw one.



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JMS/MN

07-28-2004 22:32:46




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 Re: Re: 190xt in reply to Ralph, 07-28-2004 19:13:41  
Ralph- you are right. Just plain wrong info, maybe from well-meaning folks who don't know AC tractors. Especially confusing to newbies when they talk about two-stage clutches as the only means of providing live pto. As if the few hundred thousand AC tractors with the hand clutch or Power Director never meant squat, even if they are easier to operate than the two-stage. Unfortunately, people who don't understand the systems try to explain them.

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Farmer Gene (NW WI)

07-28-2004 14:04:21




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 Re: 190xt in reply to RJC, 07-27-2004 20:19:22  
I never seen a 190 with both 540 and 1000 rpm pto, post picture.



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JMS/MN

07-28-2004 22:02:57




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 Re: Re: 190xt in reply to Farmer Gene (NW WI), 07-28-2004 14:04:21  
My scanner does not work anymore, but on page 15 of the sales flier, FE333A, from when they were produced, they describe the standard and optional pto setups. They came with 540 and 1000 rpm pto, no matter if it was live or independent.



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Wayne

07-28-2004 12:41:30




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 Re: 190xt in reply to RJC, 07-27-2004 20:19:22  
Independent PTO means it is independent of everything else. It means all you have to do is move a lever and put the PTO in gear period.

Live PTO means you have to stop the tractor and use a 2 stage clutch or such and push all the way down on the pedal and put the PTO in gear and let the clutch half way up and the PTO starts turning and then before you let all the way up you select what gear you want to use and then let it the rest of the way up. So when you push half way down on the pedal it will stop the tractor and all the way down will stop the tractor and the PTO.

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James

07-28-2004 11:00:12




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 Re: 190xt in reply to RJC, 07-27-2004 20:19:22  
Yes they do have a sort of live PTO which could be called "semi-live". Essentially you have a hand lever, what I believe is called a power director, which is used to clutch the left final drive. This stopped travel while still allowing the transmission to remain in gear with the main clutch engaged, which is necessary for the PTO to work. This is not as good as actual live PTO, if you have inboard brakes. A problem occurs if you brake the left wheel with the final drive clutched (e.g. if you are on a hill and don't want to coast down), when this is done, assuming the PTO is running (transmission is in gear) all power is directed to the right side and the tractor will move. I don't remember if the AC has inboard brakes but I believe it did, someone else needs to answer that. MM used the same system on older tractors in the 50's and did have the problem. I also think the AC WD45 may have had the problem. Someone needs to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm really not an AC man, or more politically correct, not an AC person.

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James

07-29-2004 06:46:20




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 Re: Re: 190xt in reply to James, 07-28-2004 11:00:12  
Yes, I found out somewhat belatedly that I was wrong. What I wrote was based on a conversation I had with a fellow who owned a few AC's but later I determined he did not know much about them. Massy and MM used the system I described for their "live" PTO and based on what he said, I assumed that AC used the same principle. Sorry about the error. Having only driven one AC (WD45) for about 25 minutes in my life, I should have known not to post any AC museings.

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DanD.

07-28-2004 14:20:37




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 Re: Re: 190xt in reply to James, 07-28-2004 11:00:12  
The situation you describe does not occur on the AC tractors. The power director on the D series tractors and newer and the transmission clutch on the WD and WD 45 tractors is located between the foot operated engine clutch and the transmission. Put either the power director or transmission clutch in neutral and no power from any source is going to get to the transmission and thus to the wheels. However, power is still delivered to the PTO shaft.

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JMS/MN

07-28-2004 13:00:50




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 Re: Re: 190xt in reply to James, 07-28-2004 11:00:12  
There is no such thing as a semi-live pto. People are just making up words and confusing others. The 190XT had a live pto as standard equipment, via the Power Director. A system that lets you stop wheel motion of the tractor while maintaining pto operation is LIVE. INDEPENDENT hydraulically actuated pto was an option on the 190XT. The bit about holding the brake while the pto is running is going to send power to the other side and make the tractor move is simply not true.

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Lester

07-28-2004 12:02:57




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 Re: Re: 190xt in reply to James, 07-28-2004 11:00:12  
At least up through the D series of the AC line, the tractors did not have what you are calling inboard brakes. The situation you describe never occured with a WD, WD45, D14, D15, D17 or D19 that I ever used. Maybe after that they changed but it seems like it would have been a real step backward if they did.



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Leroy

07-28-2004 07:26:27




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 Re: 190xt in reply to RJC, 07-27-2004 20:19:22  
"It works great, but you have to start the tractor moving at the same time as you start the impelment turning"

WHAT?

You need to think about what you said, or learn how to use your tractor.



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Allen

07-28-2004 05:18:17




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 Re: 190xt in reply to RJC, 07-27-2004 20:19:22  
It's called semi live power, the pto runs off the transmission. After you ingage the pto then you can use the hand clutch to stop the tractor, and keep the pto running. It works great, but you have to start the tractor moving at the same time as you start the impelment turning.



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Geroge

07-28-2004 08:48:11




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 Re: Re: 190xt in reply to Allen, 07-28-2004 05:18:17  
Leroy is correct. For god sakes don't send power to the wheels and to the PTO at the same time when starting up. Put the power director in NEUTRAL, start the PTO by letting out the foot clutch, then, when the PTO is up to speed, start the tractor MOVING with the power director. This isn't rocket science folks, learn what clutch mechanism controls what systems and use your tools to their best advantage. Way too many people who have tractors seem to have no idea of what independent power or live power is, and therefore that there is a difference between the two systems. I'd have to recomend that if you don't understand this or can't learn it beore you get a tractor, then don't consider anything with out some type of hydrostatic transmission.

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George

07-29-2004 09:56:32




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 Re: Re: Re: 190xt in reply to Geroge, 07-28-2004 08:48:11  
m. is partly correct. The foot clutch does stop power to everything (wheels and PTO). Quickly? Well that depends... If you are headed down hill, it may take some brake action to stop the movement of the tractor. If your PTO is connected to something that has some momentem to it, that's not going to stop too quickly either. If your mower or baler is just about to gobble up your daughters soccer ball or your wifes favorite cat, the odds are about 10:1 that the foot clutch won't stop things fast enough.

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m. forest

07-28-2004 11:20:30




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 Re: Re: Re: 190xt in reply to Geroge, 07-28-2004 08:48:11  
there are two type of p.t.o on 190xt
first: you push the clutch pedal and you engage the pto lever. if the power director lever is place in neutral you engage the clutch pedal and the pto start to turn and the tractor don,t move. after that you engage the power director in hi or low range.
second type: hydraulic engagement . you engage the pto without using foot clutch. just move the lever of the pto to engage it. and you always do your independant pto by using power director to stop tractor movement.
advantage: if you need to stop very quickly both movement(pto and wheel travel) you step on the foot clutch and you stop every thing quickly.

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