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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro

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Shawnba67

02-12-2021 08:30:23




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I have a D15 with a loader that I think I would like to add 2 way hydraulics. Or at the least somewhere to hook the second hose from implements. My friend has offered use of his disc plow but it has hydraulic lift on the wheels. It has 2 hoses. I think I understand that I could just vent one of the plow hoses and only have lift. This would have the wheels rolling while in use but not sure if thats a problem. Or I need to convert to 2 way which seems like it would be useful in the long run. Any guidence is appreciated.

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DrAllis

02-20-2021 14:56:23




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Shawnba67, 02-12-2021 08:30:23  
Sent you pics via e-mail. Enjoy.



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DrAllis

02-19-2021 08:42:21




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Shawnba67, 02-12-2021 08:30:23  
On a series 3, you could buy a larger pump for the power steering pump and set it up with a flow-divider valve to send the first 4 gpm to the steering and the excess flow to the loader valve. Everything would be up to you to fabricate.



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DrAllis

02-19-2021 08:36:07




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Shawnba67, 02-12-2021 08:30:23  
On our D-15 II we have a belt driven pump under the hood, designed by me. On my D-17 III, I have a Gleaner 4-cylinder F2 turbo diesel engine in it with a 190XT hydraulic pump on the left front of the engine. My tee on the sump design works with any added-on pump....PTO driven or engine driven. The easiest to do is the PTO driven, but the better is a front pump driven off of the engine crank pulley. Older gas D-17's would have room for a hydraulic pump above the generator like we did on our D-15. Can send you pics via e-mail if you'd like.

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mokicker

02-20-2021 05:21:29




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to DrAllis, 02-19-2021 08:36:07  
Thanks Dr Allis.

I tend to really over think things upfront and muddy my own pictures; but, your explanation really cleared things up. I would love pics of your arrangement. Once I get the picture in my head: I'm pretty good at fabricating stuff. I'm really hesitant about jumping into hydraulic or diesel stuff cause I know very little about them. But I figure as long as I'm above ground, I can still learn it.

Have a great day,
Carl
mokicker2 at gmail

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DrAllis

02-16-2021 05:21:59




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Shawnba67, 02-12-2021 08:30:23  
I have built a "live" hydraulic system on my Nephews D-15 II, which has the same hydraulic sump as your D-14. If all your loader cylinders are of the 2-way design, I feel confident in getting by with the tractors sump capacity. The Allis 400 loader tank was only 2 to 2 1/2 gallons capacity. I don't care for a PTO pump, but that's your choice. I'm guessing this tractor won't be used 7 days a week doing chores on the farm, and much less than that ?? My hydraulic system design requires drilling a hole in the left side front corner of the tractors cast iron sump and threading it to accept a 3/4" pipe "tee". You'll draw your oil from one side of the tee and the return oil (after a filter) goes back in the other side of the tee. So, this is a constant loop of oil going around and around and all getting filtered at the same time. The only time any oil actually leaves the sump is when you would extend any of the loaders cylinders, that of which a 2 gallon reservoir is more than enough. Once you get all the hoses and cylinders full of oil, this will work just fine. I've done this design on the D-15 II and my own D-17 III and they work flawlessly.

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mokicker

02-19-2021 05:16:14




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to DrAllis, 02-16-2021 05:21:59  
Dr Allis,

I have a D17 Series III that I run a pto pump on for the loader. I would love to get rid of the pto pump. Somehow, I'm not getting the picture from your post. I understand the T fitting adaptation; but, miss the pump arrangement. Have you mounted an inline pump into the system somewhere: like a belt driven pump or some other configuration? Could you provide more detail. Thanks



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Jim.ME

02-15-2021 14:06:43




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Shawnba67, 02-12-2021 08:30:23  
Unless someone has added a hydraulic tank to your D14, the reservoir in the tractor where the hydraulic pump is located, is only 9 quarts, nowhere near enough for a PTO pump and the only port that might come close to large enough for PTO pump suction line would be the hydraulic compartment drain port. You should add a tank to the loader (many loaders that used front mounted, crank driven pumps, had reservoirs built into the frame of the loader). There are formulas for tank sizing on the net, and the PTO pump instructions may say, but I think it is at least, if not more than, the gpm rating on the pump. So you would be looking at a 15 to 20 gallon reservoir. You might as well make it self contained, separate from the tractor hydraulics. Better than a PTO pump would be to find a crank driven front pump, then it would be live when you push the clutch. I know the power director can be used to keep the PTO running, but if you push the clutch the drive line can be stopping to prepare for a transmission shift.

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DrAllis

02-14-2021 20:31:37




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Shawnba67, 02-12-2021 08:30:23  
Open center, yes. I see you have a loader, so if you want to leave it attached on the tractor all the time, you'd want a 2-spool valve, so you can operate your loader as-is and then operate your neighbors cylinder when needed.



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DrAllis

02-12-2021 16:56:33




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Shawnba67, 02-12-2021 08:30:23  
You are correct, that you could remove the second hose and just add a breather, or add a breather to the end of the hose. The problem with that is this: your tractor, if the hydraulic pump is in good condition, can make 3,000 + psi of pressure. In fact, factory spec is 3,700 lbs of pressure. So, if you borrow your buddy's hydraulic cylinder and raise your lift/lower lever to the top and lock it there, when the cylinder hits the top of its stroke, it may very well explode the cylinder from too much pressure. Most cylinders are designed to work with 2,200 psi hydraulic systems. Now, if you were careful and always placed your lift/lower lever half-way BEFORE the cylinder got fully stroked, you'd be OK fine. By adding a single spool 2-way valve to the left of the seat, and plumbing it into your tractors hydraulic system, that added-on valve has a 2,200 psi relief valve built into it, thus protecting your buddy's 2-way cylinder. Pretty easy to do, but you have to be a fabricator to make a plate for the valve to rest on (left of the seat) and have hydraulic hoses made and routed/plumbed to make it all work.

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Shawnba67

02-14-2021 15:48:41




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to DrAllis, 02-12-2021 16:56:33  
Do I need an open center or closed? 3 position, 2 way, 1 spool valve correct?



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Bob Bancroft

02-14-2021 16:04:28




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Shawnba67, 02-14-2021 15:48:41  
Open center. You can install as many spool valves as you want. There was a little known option for those tractors which was a three spool assembly. One controlled the lift arms, and you had two, double acting remotes.



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WMRICH

02-15-2021 13:05:54




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to Bob Bancroft, 02-14-2021 16:04:28  
On the subject I have a D 14 with a trip bucket loader, I want to install a PTO driven hydraulic pump to operate a cylinder on the trip bucket to make it hydralicly operated bucket , also using the PTO pump to operate the loader. Will I need a separate hydraulic tank or can I use the existing tank on the D 14 routing the hoses to that tank? Thanks for any replies



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BonaparteSouth

02-16-2021 14:59:41




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to WMRICH, 02-15-2021 13:05:54  
Instead of all the time and expense, you might want to look in to a 400 all hyd loader with front pump. loader works independent. this leaves your pto and tractor hyds free for other use. you can go to a good supplier and purchase a 2.5 x 8 hi-pressure cylinder, hook it up with single hose. this new style clyinder can use depth stops for working depth. PS I have a 400 loader with front pump for sale, very straight and NO EXTRA welds. has wide material bucket. $1250 cash.

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WMRICH

02-16-2021 18:03:41




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to BonaparteSouth, 02-16-2021 14:59:41  
Well that's interesting where do you live, Im in Amana Iowa



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BonaparteSouth

02-17-2021 08:26:29




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to WMRICH, 02-16-2021 18:03:41  
bonaparte iowa 641-919-1587



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BonaparteSouth

02-17-2021 05:59:36




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 Re: Advise on converting D15 to 2 way/hose hydro in reply to WMRICH, 02-16-2021 18:03:41  
bonaparte



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