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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

1951 WD45

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51wd45

07-26-2020 05:58:15




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According to Agco Allis I have a 1951 WD45 diesel tractor. Take a good close look at the pictures I have uploaded. The current engine in the tractor is thought to be a WD45 gas engine made by the Fordson company in England. Look at the casting symbol. Also note the tractor is not the standard Allis orange and is lacking any identifying stickers. It also has D17 factory installed parts and the diesel precleaner air intake bowl. The serial number is hand stamped, with the second number 8 being upside down. According the UNL Larsen Tractor Test and Power Museum, the engineer pulled a WD from the assembly line in 1951. They installed the Buda Diesel engine into that tractor for testing. The problem is that Agco has no further info on this tractor dye to the purge they did to get out of the asbestos brake lawsuit. I need to find the info pertaining to the trying of the prototype WD45 to confirm that this is the tractor used in the testing. Any info would be most appreciated. I am a fully disabled Army Vet that is denied all VA benefits even after being honorably discharged. When I can prove that this is the prototype tractor I'll be able to put it into a museum and get some extra income to help support myself. Thank you

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51wd45

08-01-2020 06:23:02




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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The problem is that we are all guessing. I searched and found more than one engine manufacturer back then with the initials either FSCo. or SFCo. Such as Farm Safety Co. Until another engine or piece of equipment can be found with this very casting symbol/ company logo. It's only a guess. Which is why I started this. To find documented proof. Guessing won't solve the problem of identifying this engine and the reason this tractor is put together like it is. Hopefully the documents haven't been destroyed. If anyone knows of a resource that I can look into it, has contacts that they can use. It would be very much appreciated. Sarcasm and guessing won't solve anything. At least the guessing could lead to something useful. I tried to do a Google picture search on the casting symbol. But, all I got were pictures of wood carvings. Maybe someone, better than I am with computers can do a search. Who knows, maybe the person with the info is reading all of these guesses and is sitting and laughing at us. Waiting until the time is right to step in and tell us what this is.

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51wd45

07-31-2020 18:12:33




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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My Dad was a mechanic/machinist/electrician/welder for Keiwitt Corp. here in Nebraska. The only thing we drove was Ford's. So, yes we did use the 19/32. Used the 25/32 on construction equipment. But, it's been so long ago I can't remember what I used it on. Just remember it as being painted yellow. And I was helping my dad out on a jobsite in western part of Nebraska. They would send him anywhere from Oklahoma to Wyoming to fix things that other people couldn't get fixed. And, he always got it going.

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51wd45

07-31-2020 09:41:20




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Been so long since I've seen a 19/32 I forgot all about them. I used to have them until they were stolen.



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Butch(oh)

07-31-2020 17:57:02




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-31-2020 09:41:20  
here is another odd one in my Craftsman deep set that I purchased in June of 1974. The 19/32 was used on Ford power steering pumos back in the day but this 25/32 has never been used to my knowledge.



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J Hamilton

07-31-2020 18:06:30




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to Butch(oh), 07-31-2020 17:57:02  
What about a 21/32 I have no clue what it would fit



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51wd45

07-31-2020 08:25:19




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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I misspoke before. I pulled 3 nuts off of the pan. Aaron should be posting the pic for me. I'm not computer proficient. Can't get pics posted myself. Mechanical I can figure out. Or electrical. Just not computers. I had to use a 15mm socket. The 9/16 was too small and the 5/8 was a sloppy fit. The 15mm fit perfectly. And, I know what sae is. I've known that since I was 10 years old helping my Dad. At 14 I was on Peter Keiwitt jobsite with him. Helping to work on different plants and equipment. Plus with my school permit it gave me driving time.

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Butch(oh)

07-31-2020 09:19:46




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-31-2020 08:25:19  
Only us older types have and remember using a 19/32 wrench or socket, Sears put that size in sets up to at least the early 70s as that is when I bought mine. I'd bet a good sized pile that is what you dealth with, not metric,,



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Jim.ME

07-31-2020 04:00:06




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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You are correct by the numbers, but for practical purposes a 5/8" and 16MM wrench are the same as far as fit on a fastener.

16MM = 0.6299"

5/8" = 0.6250"

difference = 0.0049"

That's less than 0.005" difference. The allowable manufacturing tolerances of wrenches/sockets (and the nuts), not to mention wear on the tools that have been used, can exceed that amount. They can fit on either, so they can't be used to determine whether a fastener is standard or metric for certain. As was posted, actual diameter and thread pitch of the fastener are needed to make that determination.

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charles leddy

07-30-2020 19:35:15




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Good luck with all that???? Most of the dis-abled "Vets" in my area sit out by the the curb and try to get money. Put it on the market and see what you get???? This is a tractor forum for people to learn more about tractors and this is going nowhere and all the luck with that and I had enough of nothing-Great to have a plain old "WD" with old faded orange paint.cleddy



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51wd45

07-30-2020 16:13:45




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Then it must of been the 5/8 and 11/16 I tried. Been a couple of years since I tried it. I know on the nuts on this tractor I had to use the 16mm. Dennis Stromp owns Stump's Dump by Spalding. He's had that farm equipment salvage yard for decades. It's his cousin that has the WD5 with the Fordson engine. I've looked throughout his entire salvage yard and can't find an engine like mine. I also sent the pics to the A.S.A.P. yard in Bayard. They sent the pics to their other yards. No other engine could be found in their entire network like mine. Their oldest employees had never seen it. They checked all Allis equipment including crawler tracks and construction equipment in their inventory.

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51wd45

07-30-2020 08:36:56




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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That is the original precleaner. The farmer/ collector near Albion has every single D series tractor fully restored. He's recently purchased a WD45 made in 53 with a Fordson engine. He has the research to prove it. He instantly recognized this engine as a Fordson engine. The big difference is the casting symbol. He's looking into this tractor as well. A 5/8 socket fit loose on the nuts. But would of worked. The 16mm was a perfect fit.

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DrAllis

07-30-2020 08:24:16




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
A 16 mm wrench is the same size as a 5/8" wrench, so that solves that problem. The pre-cleaner is easily added onto the normal WD air cleaner that you currently have, so another mystery solved.



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wgm

07-30-2020 15:40:29




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to DrAllis, 07-30-2020 08:24:16  
Not the same.
16mm = .6299”
5/8” = .6250”



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51wd45

07-30-2020 08:13:53




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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It could be that. But it doesn't explain needing a metric socket on a SAE nut. And, as I said I've talked with the gentleman who's father originally purchased the tractor. He was 16 at the time. His dad bought it at the local dealer here in central Nebraska with that engine as a new tractor. No aftermarket anything. When he couldn't get an oil filter for it thru Allis he ran it until the original filter fell apart and then parked it. He says that this is the original engine his dad bought it with. He spent many hours working the fields on it.

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Tramway Guy

07-30-2020 07:04:36




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
I’m thinking the Foundry mark is for ‘Standard Foundry Co.’, formerly in Racine, WI. And Leroi was based in Milwaukee, not far away.

Certainly not Fordson.



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51wd45

07-30-2020 05:42:51




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Yep, you missed it. I said that they are 5/16 saw coarse thread bolt. I can put a standard SAE nut in them. The casting block number and part number lead me to Ford websites every time I do an internet search. Butler Ag searched their data base for both of them and can't find them. And, dot forget Agco records shows this tractor as a diesel. The precleaner bowl on the air intake is for a diesel. None of the paint has been disturbed on any of the mounting bolts. Only one layer of paint on them. And there are no decal stickers.

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DrAllis

07-30-2020 05:29:57




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I can show you hundreds and hundreds of connecting rods from a certain vintage of "301" Allis engines that say JAPAN on them. What does that mean ?? Well, some company in Japan forged them for Allis-Chalmers and A-C used them in their engines. A part from the 1960's/early 70's made overseas for an American built engine. Nothing special about those. That's the way it was done back then. You still haven't verified your pan bolts as being metric thread or not, or did I miss that ?? The nut/wrench size isn't important. The thread size/pitch is.

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51wd45

07-29-2020 19:24:27




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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So your saying that LeRoi is spelled with an F S Co.? Where did you go to school?



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Tramway Guy

07-31-2020 19:44:20




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-29-2020 19:24:27  
Leroi probably had castings made at “Standard Foundry Co” in Racine, WI. Look at the foundry mark again. Hardly any engine companies made their own block castings. They purchased them from foundries.



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Aaron SEIA

07-29-2020 19:02:50




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it? Pretty sure he has a backyard toss together of a hodge podge of parts. Yours is more than likely a 51 WD with a Leroi engine in it.

AaronSEIA



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51wd45

07-29-2020 12:31:25




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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This is what I'm surmising so far. The 1948 tractor is the prototype diesel. Just need to know the manufacturer. My tractor is probably just a R&D tractor. The engineers in 1951 took a WD frame and drivetrain from the assy line and put the 230 c.i.d. diesel engine in. Once they were done with their testing and satisfied with the performance of it. They still needed to get the data on the bigger gas engine for the WD45. There was no reason to pull a second unit from the assy line. All this would of done would be to cost more money. They just reused the same tractor. Much more economical. Plus it hid from the competition what they were planning. If the cut frame rails had been left on the tractor would not of been able to be sold. Once they gathered the data necessary to send to the UNL test lab. The tractor was sold. Probably as a new model at full price. My guess is that FordSon Co. was trying to secure the contract to supply the engines for the WD45. Which would account for the few number of WD45's with the rare FordSon engine. But, I can't get the Henry Ford Museum to reply to me as I can't afford to buy their attention and become a member.

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51wd45

07-29-2020 07:58:45




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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51wd45

07-29-2020 07:48:38




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Cool! This is what I've been looking for. That means mine is not a prototype. I see that yours is a diesel. Is that one of German design? I still need to identify my engine. The casting symbol is the key to my engine.



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cdmn

07-29-2020 07:43:47




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
I too have a WD diesel prototype, but it's a 1948, so it must be even more rare. It required the use of various model parts to make the assembly. I bought it after thousands
of hours of hard work. I thought you guys might be interested.



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51wd45

07-27-2020 06:06:54




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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I'm not for sure what parts. I'm thinking that it was the oil filter. Because it had whatever they had on hand thrown in it. With no spring or washer to hold it into place. The cartridge just rattled around loose inside of the canister. Some of my info is third from people who knew who used to own it. Still trying to track down the past owners. The original owners son doesn't have any of the original paperwork on it. They threw that away when they had their farm auction.

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DrAllis

07-27-2020 05:54:49




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Exactly what engine parts were "they" having difficulty in finding ?? Looks to me like it's pretty complete and it must be running ??? If you tell yourself enough times that this tractor must be 'the one" you'll eventually believe it. The story started out as this was a Buda diesel prototype transplant (the one and only with no solid proof) and now it has some sort of experimental gas engine in it...the same tractor ?? Really ??

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51wd45

07-27-2020 05:34:24




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Hopefully there is still info out there. Which is what I'm searching for. Every expert that I've contacted believes that this might be the prototype if I can find the documents necessary. Even if it's a person's personal journal in which he recorded the events. My ex's uncle that owns the 1886 Chicago World's Fair M-M tractor and works for a retired farmer restoring antique farm equipment. Believes that this could be the tractor. The farmer he works for has restored 100's of pieces of equipment and he owns the steam engine along with the block and tackle that set The Sower on the State capitol. He also thinks that it might be it. The key, I believe, to discovering the history of this tractor lies in the casting symbol. Every person that owned it before me got rid of it because they couldn't find engine parts. It has mainly sat. Where the paint is worn off, there is no other paint below it. As my ex's uncle told me. This tractor is a book in itself. Unfortunately I'm the one that is going to have to write it. So, I'm here searching for the evidence I need. Hoping that I can spark enough talk that it will eventually get to the right person or persons.

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51wd45

07-26-2020 19:19:35




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Therein lies my problem. But, somewhere out there there should be some kind of record on the Allis test tractor. That is what I'm searching for. Plus the entire tractor is an off orange color including the engine. And it is lacking any signs of having decals ever put on it.



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J Hamilton

07-26-2020 19:25:09




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 19:19:35  
There may have been a record at one time, but unfortunately its probably long gone. And given the age of the tractor, do you think it may have been repainted with all the different parts and modifications that have been done to the original tractor?? Probably so.



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DrAllis

07-26-2020 19:12:08




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
In the end, you cannot really prove anything that makes this tractor as special as you think it is. Sorry. Several years ago, I made a trip into northern Missouri and looked at a WD tractor that was claimed to be the original Nebraska test tractor tested at "Nebraska test". You know what ?? The chassis s/n matched the Test report data for #399. The engine s/n matched the test report data for test #399. The brand of starter and generator (Auto-Lite) were also accurate. So, in short I was looking at thee tractor that spent 50 hrs or so on the test track at UNL. It can be proven! It is documented !! I'm not there looking at your tractor, but I feel pretty sure it is simply an old 1951 WD that for some reason (no antifreeze in the original engine and froze up ?) the engine, or the short block at least, was changed out for a LeRoi look-alike engine. This has been done before. Nothing special about that. You can argue all you want that it may have had a BUDA BD-230 diesel engine in it at one time. But, you can't prove it. AGCO will never put it in writing.

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51wd45

07-26-2020 18:54:34




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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So what you're saying is that there never was a prototype/ test tractor and that everyone but you is lieing to me. And hand stamps have a line machined into them so you can tell by feel which way is right side up. That way you get the numbers/letters stamped correctly.



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DrAllis

07-26-2020 18:45:55




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Sooo much to try and explain, but AGCO (not AGCO-ALLIS) has told you an untruth. Just get over it. There is no one left in that organization that knows anything about a WD tractor. PLEASE look at a really good serial number listing for the WD and WD45 tractors, like from this website !!. It shows what AGCO told you to be wrong!! Those serial numbers were all hand stamped !! Good Lord, I've seen dozens of them that were crooked and an 8 looks like an 8 when you are hustling to stamp in a number as the chassis is going down the assembly line. I make no attempt to explain LeRoi's stamping on the block and you can't explain anything about it either. Maybe LeRoi had contracted someone overseas to make their castings?? I don't know and don't really care. There was a time in the 1970's and 80's that White Farm Equipment made rear end and axle castings for the AC 7000 and 8000 tractors. Nothing new about that. It has to be a LeRoi short block with what I think is an AC head, but the pictures aren't good enough for me to tell for 100% certainty.

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51wd45

07-26-2020 18:30:39




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Nope, I do believe you. They had a lot of interchangeable parts back then. But, there had to be the first test tractor that it was tried on. Plus you still haven't explained the the casting symbol. Btw, the picture somehow got rotated 90 degrees to the left when I sent it. The letters should be right side up, not laying down. Not for sure how that happened. And Agco-Allis records still has this very tractor listed as a 1951 WD45 diesel. And, the serial number is still hand stamped, not machine stamped. And, the second number 8 will always be stamped upside down. The small circle for the eight is on the bottom. The large circle should be on the bottom to be a right side up 8. I know this from my days as a sign installer/ serviceman. And, the pan nuts will always take a 16mm socket to remove them from the standard 5/16 SAE coarse thread bolt.

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J Hamilton

07-26-2020 18:46:09




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 18:30:39  
What Agco-Allis records show this being a WD-45 Diesel? What serial numbers?



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DrAllis

07-26-2020 18:16:28




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Carburetor is a small body ZENITH, which is what many WD's had. It is different/smaller than your 1954 WD45 carb. A D-17 governor is exactly the same as a WC-WD-WD45. The only difference is the governor spring, to make the top speed 2,000 RPM instead of 1700 RPM. I guess you don't believe me when I try and tell you that LeRoi marketed a four-cylinder engine that was a copy of the AC 4-cylinder engine?? Like a GMC and Chevy pickup truck. It's common knowledge in the antique tractor pulling world and to those who know antique tractors.

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Bob Bancroft

07-26-2020 18:24:24




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to DrAllis, 07-26-2020 18:16:28  
I've been trying to understand this whole charade. Your saying this is a LeRoi block now makes some sense of the oil filter/lines/etc.



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51wd45

07-26-2020 18:02:22




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Ok, you do know that Continental owned LeRoi? Also why would they use the F S Co casting symbol? LeRoi wouldn't use that symbol. If the engineers ordered in a specific engine for testing they would order it to A-C specs. And prototypes used parts for several different tractors for creating purposes. They wouldn't need to use a magneto system as it was already in use. They would need to test a D17 governer and points system. If you'll notice it has the small Zephyr carb on it. They would need to see the increased performance of the larger intake.

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DrAllis

07-26-2020 17:51:59




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
If you are able to insert the dipstick under the carburetor area, that is not an ALLIS block. But, how can a WD45/D17 manifold fit the cylinder head?? and it may be an AC tall head ?? How can this fit the non-AC block ??? It's LeRoi !! Been there. Dun that. There are tractor pullers that have been using LeRoi heads for years on AC blocks.



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51wd45

07-26-2020 17:39:52




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Nope, the dipstick is just slightly farther back than on my 1954 model. The D17 unified oil pump is the original oil pump. I replaced it with a WD45 pump and had to move the dipstick to the other side. But, I'll be putting a D17 pump back into it to return it to the original condition. I live in Scotia, NE. I'm easily found. The tractor is under 24 hour surveilence by my landlord that is a law enforcement official. It is his father that sold me the tractor. His father bought it at auction in Ord, NE thinking that it was a standard WD.

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DrAllis

07-26-2020 17:29:59




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
The engine dipstick should be located exactly on the same side and in the same place front to back as your 1954 WD-45. If it is in any other location, that block wasn't cast by Allis-Chalmers. The WC-WD-WD45 and D-17 gas engines dipstick are all in the same place. There isn't any other option.



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51wd45

07-26-2020 17:20:13




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Tractordata only has info on standard tractors. Agco-Allis is the telling me that this is a 1951 WD45 diesel. I bought it thinking it was a WD. Until I bought a 1954 WD45. That's when I realized that there was something different about this tractor. As for the dipstick. It is the location that of it that causes the conflict. It uses a standard WD45 dipstick. But the remote suction on the standard WD45 oil pump comes out directly under the dipstick which pushes it up part way out of the holder.

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51wd45

07-26-2020 17:08:27




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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I doubt very seriously that the UNL is going to lie to me. It wouldn't be in their best interest. They after I contacted them they researched the tractor and what A-C did. The spent a month into researching. They cannot confirm that this tractor is the prototype as those records are gone. But, they say it is a rare tractor. I'm trying to find the info on the prototype testing as I have exhausted nearly all of my sources. The engine is not an aftermarket. I've talked with the gentleman who's father originally bought the tractor. He had to park it because he couldn't get engine parts for it. His father was told that the engine was of German origin. With no engine serial number he wouldn't of been able to find parts. A-C either removed the engine serial numbers or there were none put on the engine on all of their protypes

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DrAllis

07-26-2020 17:04:24




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
I'm done. That chassis serial number is for a model "WD" tractor, not a WD-45. To be a WD-45 the serial number must be 146,607 or higher. The info from Nebraska I'd certainly have to see, but you'll have to agree that whatever "testing" was done (if any) certainly wasn't listed in the official Nebraska Test Book, of which I happen to own one. There isn't any mention of a 1951 WD Allis diesel and that's a fact. I think it's a LeRoi short block with a tall WD/WD45 cylinder head and a WD45/D17 manifold, which, as I have tried to explain, ain't nothing special. Good luck, and be sure to not have someone who really knows those tractors look at it. They just might agree with me.

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Aaron SEIA

07-26-2020 16:56:15




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
I'd like to see the documentation from UNL. All they ever did was test the machines they got in. Unless this is one of their official test tractors, I can't believe they'd have the info. As for the original AC serial number info, it was lost when the Germans bought AC. There was zero, zilch, nada left when AGCO took it back. Unless you can document it, I think you've been fed a line.

AaronSEIA

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51wd45

07-26-2020 16:52:48




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Yes the serial number is on the brake housing. And it is Agco-Allis records that show this tractor to be a 1951 WD45. The records they got when they acquired A-C. It is th University Of Nebraska/ Lincoln Larsen Tractor Test And Power Museum's research into this tractor that let me know that in 1951 the engineers at A-C took a WD frame off the assy line and put a German made diesel the exact same size and design of the Buda diesel into that tractor. Which lead them to buy Buda. If you'd like to dispute the experts at the UNL you will probably need to write to them directly. As for the casting symbol, the F S Co, I can't find it anywhere else. Not even the Fordson engines that were used in limited amount in the other WD45's. So far this is the only engine that can be found with that symbol. Hagerty Insurance did a search and couldn't find another tractor like this one. They asked how much I wanted it insured for as they couldn't put a price on it. I told them $100k and they agreed to it.

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Aaron SEIA

07-26-2020 16:47:52




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Hey Dr Allis...the parts book shows the same dipstick for a WC through any of the D17s.

AaronSEIA



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Aaron SEIA

07-26-2020 16:41:44




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  






I'm with Dr Allis. I see nothing that makes me think this was a prototype anything. Serial number (I assume it's on the brake housing) makes it a 51 WD. As others have said, it was 2 years prior to the Buda purchase by AC. I doubt they would have gone to the great lengths to replace frame rails, etc to hide what it was. That style oil filter is also found in the automotive world, and on some old AC's. May well be aftermarket. Given it's a 51, there has been 70 years of time since it was new. Paint and parts mean almost nothing now.

AaronSEIA

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DrAllis

07-26-2020 16:33:57




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see The D-17 oil pump and WC-WD-WD45 oil pump are essentially the same except for the floating pickup. I'd have to measure the overall dipstick length, but maybe they shortened the official D-17 dipstick a bit, whatever. A 16 mm socket is a 5/8" wrench, so it has "fat" American nuts on it. The thread pitch determines metric or not. .I'd like to help you try and connect all the dots to this tractor engine combo, because I think it ain't near as special as you're being told it is. If I'm wrong, I'll be man enough to admit it. What part of the earth is it located so I may drive to it and look ??

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51wd45

07-26-2020 16:23:06




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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First off, he is not a tech that needs a computer to tell him what to do. He is a mechanic that can think for himself. During that era Nebraska was the testing site for most of the farm equipment. Which is why JD had the 4 bottom plow as a Nebraska only equipment. It is the antiquities expert that told me that that filter element was also used in Cleaner combines. The NAPA part number for the filter is 1010. Its the only filter element with a 1/2" hole in the center. Which is what is needed for this canister. The casting symbol also references it as a Fordson engine. Fordson was only building engines in England at the time, thus the metric socket needed for the pan nuts. The oil pump is for a D17. The WD45 oil pump pushes the dipstick up as it the suction hits it. Also note that there is no stickers identifying it as an A-C tractor. It's also painted an off orange.

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DrAllis

07-26-2020 16:09:25




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
That oil filter is NOT used on any Gleaner combine that has a 4-cylinder West Allis built engine. Maybe a FORD engine used that filter, but not an Allis engine. Where is this tractor ?? It isn't anything special. It is either an AC engine or a LeRoi look-alike engine. AC never used studs for oil pan bolts. Maybe LeRoi did. The oil lines to the oil filter look different to me, which makes me think it could be LeRoi, which has been done before !!! because it is a copy of the Allis engine, but there are a few little things different. What part of the world is this thing ?? Unless your "tech" lived and worked somewhere near Milwaukee, I can't see how he is as "all-knowing" as you feel he is.

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51wd45

07-26-2020 14:51:24




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
No, the engine is not a Continental/LeRoi. All of the entire tractor is the same color. And the tractor serial number is hand stamped. Also the pan bolts are thru bolts not cap bolts screwed into threaded holes in the block. The 5/16 SAE bolts take a 16mm socket to remove the nuts.



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51wd45

07-26-2020 14:46:38




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
The frame would of been replaced when the diesel engine was replaced with the gas engine.



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51wd45

07-26-2020 14:28:46




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
[quote="Aaron SEIA"](reply to post at 14:12:26 07/26/20) [/quote

I did send a pic of the hand stamped serial number. The 2nd number 8 is stamped upside down. Protype tractors have no engine serial numbers. This was to prevent them from being traced or some one from getting parts. I've talked with a lifetime Allis-Chalmers mechanic, now retired, that actually helped with WD model protype testing. He didn't help with the WD45 testing. He said that prototype equipment doesn't have engine serial numbers.] I also sent a pic of the casting number, 31345.

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Aaron SEIA

07-26-2020 14:12:26




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  



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Aaron SEIA

07-26-2020 14:11:16




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  



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Aaron SEIA

07-26-2020 14:09:55




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  



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Aaron SEIA

07-26-2020 14:08:26




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Looking at the pictures you sent, I don't see anything "special" to make me think it's not a normal WD. I've attached the pictures of the things that struck me as unique. The block casting symbol strikes me as interesting. For a Buda engine to fit, they had to cut the left frame rail. I don't see that being notched. I also don't see any serial numbers in the pictures. It should be hand stamped in the left rear brake housing.

AaronSEIA

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Bob Bancroft

07-26-2020 14:41:01




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to Aaron SEIA, 07-26-2020 14:08:26  
WD engine with aftermarket Delco distributor drive attachment and WD45 manifold.



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51wd45

07-26-2020 14:03:11




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
I know all of that info. Tractordata.com only has the info on standard tractors. Not the info on prototype tractors. Agco-Allis has stated in an email that my serial has indicated that it is a 1951 WD45 diesel. But, that is the only info that they have. As soon as I can post pics you'll see what I'm talking about. The current gas engine isn't a Continental/LeRoi made.



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sourgum

07-26-2020 13:48:37




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
W D-45's had 6 digit serial numbers starting in 1953 when first produced. The AC company started WD-45 production with tractor number 1 3 7 x x x and went up from there. AC bought Buda Engine Co in 1953 and then started selling the WD-45 buda diesels in late 1954,full time in 1955. They sold abt 6500 diesel tractors until 1957, then production stopped. Allis Model W D's were produced from 1948-1953. How many digits in the tractor serial number.

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ramblineagle

07-26-2020 17:10:31




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to sourgum, 07-26-2020 13:48:37  
Sourgum, according to tractor data the starting number for the WD45 was 146607, in 1953.



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Aaron SEIA

07-26-2020 09:47:54




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
Email the pictures to me. I'll gladly post them for you. aaron_cummings@hotmail.com

AaronSEIA



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51wd45

07-26-2020 08:40:17




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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Thanks. I'm not very good with computers of any in. Can't find a way to contact this site. I'll just keep trying to post my pics



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Jim.ME

07-26-2020 08:26:47




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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YT requires you to have several post on record before it will accept uploads, Not to say some haven't posted pictures the first time out. From what I have seen posted by YT Support on the Site Comments Forum, I believe Modern view requires more than 5 posts, classic view might be more than 3. You can go down to that forum and ask YT Support to allow pictures with less than the required number of posts. Make a few more posts and keep trying to post your pictures each time, it will happen after a few posts. You can use the Test Forum, at the very bottom in Modern View, to keep trying in as well.

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51wd45

07-26-2020 07:35:18




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
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The email that I received from Agco-Allis says that I have a 1951 WD45 diesel by their records according to my serial number. WD85842. I'm trying to upload photos but not doing something right.



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Bob Bancroft

07-26-2020 08:08:24




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 07:35:18  
Can't help with the photos, but I do know as a new user, you can be challenged with trying to upload photos. Looking forward to them.



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Bob Bancroft

07-26-2020 07:23:41




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 Re: 1951 WD45 in reply to 51wd45, 07-26-2020 05:58:15  
WD45 was produced 1953-1957. The Buda diesel was prototyped in 1953, put into production late 1954.



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