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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

Gleaner hp in tractor

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kpm

01-08-2020 16:53:10




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Has anybody dynoed a wc/wd/wd45 with a stock greaner in it




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DrAllis

01-10-2020 18:49:23




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
I don't care who went thru the MS464, it will never perform like the D-19 carb will. The single easiest thing to gain HP is to install a larger carb on it. So, imagine a bone stock 53 PTO HP D-17 suddenly making 60 to 63 HP by just bolting on a larger carburator.



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DrAllis

01-10-2020 16:54:42




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
Your ignition timing NEEDS TO BE at 25 degrees BTDC at 1800 RPM or faster. If it is timed at the FIRE or F-30 mark on the flywheel, it is at 30 degrees which is too much. If you'd install a modified D-19 carb on that engine, you'd gain probably 8 to 10 HP.



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kpm

01-10-2020 17:22:19




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to DrAllis, 01-10-2020 16:54:42  
will check timing last time it on dyno they adgusted timing while on dyno.As for carb it has M.S.464 that was rebuilt by Motec engineering for a 240 cube puller.



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DrAllis

01-10-2020 12:14:41




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
When dynoing a WD/WD45 to measure HP @1650 engine RPM, that is 640 RPM on the PTO under load. M&W dyno's have a calculator to measure HP at different PTO speeds than stock OEM. Trouble is, many tech's don't know how to use that way of measuring torque/HP.



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kpm

01-10-2020 16:31:52




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to DrAllis, 01-10-2020 12:14:41  
I didn't understand that they took hp reading at stock pto rpm. on a modified engine I assumed they took the reading at max hp. But an engine modified to run at 2100rpm isn't going to dyno well at 1400 or 1600.I always thought it pulled stronger then 54 hp.but that reading allways stayed on my mind.Now that i understand the dyno process a little more i will leave things alone.Thanks for your input

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Aaron SEIA

01-10-2020 10:59:26




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
Have you asked down in the external_link? Someone somewhere has to have dynoed one. If you are on Facebook, there are several pulling and Allis groups to check with too.

AaronSEIA



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Aaron SEIA

01-10-2020 06:11:34




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
Your best bet might be to find a dyno and do some playing around. Couple hours with a good engine guy on the dyno and you'd be surprised what you might find.

AaronSEIA



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kpm

01-10-2020 08:40:42




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to Aaron SEIA, 01-10-2020 06:11:34  
yes , i did that and they got it from 5o to 54 I expected 60 to 65 . Not easy finding mechanic and dyno.The one i did just happen to have a borrowed dyno at his shop at that time Maybe that 54hp.was taken at lower rpm,Thats why i ask what others have dynoed at.If i ever get it on a dyno again i will ask more questions and take notes.thanks for your input.



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charles leddy

01-09-2020 20:10:28




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
I have a WD-45 with a gleaner-E engine in and it runs good. Not sure what all this talk about but my thought is the limitation is in the weight and drive train of 4 gears. My experence is with wheel weights and fluid loaded tires the extra power would help get some actual work done but mines been parked and the more powerful-more modern tractors get the workout???



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DrAllis

01-09-2020 14:10:52




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
HP loss on the Nebraska Tested early model D-17 was 10 HP from 63 HP flywheel down to 53 HP PTO. This tractor was equipped with power steering, which took 3 to 4 HP. They figured most customers would purchase the power steering option, so test the tractor that way. Had it been without power steering the HP loss would have been similar to the WD45, which was 7 HP.



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DrAllis

01-09-2020 12:09:54




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
Big valves are a waste of time in an AC with stock RPM's.



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kpm

01-09-2020 20:07:56




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to DrAllis, 01-09-2020 12:09:54  
It runs 2064 rpm.never stock rpm.compression is 150 .cam grinder knew engine build and rpm. I Was hoping to hear someone elses dyno output. to compare as mine seems low for its build. I think maybe they took hp reading at wd stock 1400 rpm.I don't want to waist time and money looking for hp if there isn't any to find.But 54 hp.seems to low.



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DrAllis

01-09-2020 12:08:49




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
Sounds to me like your 4 1/8" pistons have 120 psi of compression (or less) instead of 140-145 like an M-code engine should have. Also sounds to me like the change in the camshaft was a bad idea for stock RPM's. And where is the ignition timing set at ???????????????????? The One-Seventy flywheel to PTO HP losses come from the hydraulic pump/hydrostatic power steering.



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Aaron SEIA

01-09-2020 11:05:42




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
If a D17 at the flywheel makes 63 flywheel and 54.4 on the belt, it drops about 8.6 horse in the gearing.
A WD45 with 50.6 flywheel does 43.3 belt or 7.3 horse lost in gearing. Thats belt. PTO may well drop another 1-2 horse or better. Not sure when Nebraska started using the PTO vs belt.
A 170 tested at Nebraska did 54 PTO which was a Z code at 67 horse flywheel. That'd be a loss of 13 horse

.

One thing to keep in mind, the Wd45 is geared for 1400 rpm at 540. If you pull a 1650 rpm rated engine down to 1400, you are probably under max horse anyway. Did you get those numbers at 540 rated rpm, or at rated engine rpm of 1650 which I think would be about 630 rpm.

AaronSEIA

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kpm

01-09-2020 18:20:21




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to Aaron SEIA, 01-09-2020 11:05:42  
i think they might have took hp reading at 1400 rpm.But i don't know. I guess i didnt ask enough questions and it was two yrs.ago so i really don't know. But on the other hand i assume a pull that allows 2064 rpm would check hp at that rpm. This fall another puller told me that he sold a wd with a stock gleaner that dyoed 65 hp.I know that could be bs,but it shure made me think again about my 54 hp.output witch i always thought was to low.Thats why my first post on this site was to inquire what someone else's Ac dynoed

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DrAllis

01-08-2020 20:42:35




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
The Gleaner "E" engine ( or D-17 engine) with the "M" code compression ratio will make 63.2 flywheel HP @ 1650 loaded RPM's. At 1400 RPM's it makes 55.6 HP whereas a WD45 engine makes 50.6 @1400 RPM's loaded at the flywheel, or 43 HP at the PTO. I don't know what you are questioning, but the D-17/"E" Gleaner engine makes more HP than any WC-WD or any stock WD45, but the RPM's you test it at makes a difference. Some later model E and E-3 combine engines have a "Z" compression ratio code in the engine serial number and they are 67 HP instead of 63.2 HP at the flywheel.

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kpm

01-09-2020 09:50:21




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to DrAllis, 01-08-2020 20:42:35  

I was questioning the hp at pto for stock gleaner. I knew the flywheel hp . Wondering how much is lost going through the pto. I believe D17 has 52 pto hp.and itís basically same as M code gleaner. my reason for asking is I have a wd45 with gleaner m code ,rebuilt head with bigger valves ,reground cam and four and one eights flat tops.and stock rods. Dynoed 50hp.at a pull,then 52at an Agco dealership and finally 54 hp.at an Independent repair shop whoís owner pulls some strong tractors. I definitely expected more. it runs good , but 15.5/38 was to much tire, but did win points champion ship in 3750,4000, 4250 and 2nd in 4500 and4750 3.5 mph with 16/28 tires . Put the 15.5 tires on my wc with some build except wc block and it does well with them itís never been on dyno .

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Aaron SEIA

01-08-2020 18:37:48




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 Re: Gleaner hp in tractor in reply to kpm, 01-08-2020 16:53:10  
If you use the D17 or 170 carb and intake it should make roughly what a D17 or 170 makes.

AaronSEIA



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