AC model D grader, with Gleaner engine question

Alrighty, if any one is following along at home, I got the Gleaner E engine, it's mounted up, I have the fuel sys, electrical, clutch, starter, and cooling sorted. I had a heck of a time getting the old front cover off, but with enough pounding I finally had it come free. My guess is it has been on there since the engine was built in the early 60s.

Now comes the dilemma. The model D pulley setup is a triple groove deal, with no room for the side pin bolt to go into the recess in the crank snout. There is a 5/16" hole sideways all the way through the crank snout, which would allow me to put a roll pin in there, but I'll have to bore a hole through the center of one of the V grooves. This is not a fatal problem, but wondering if there is another plan that's better. There are three bolts on the coned outside end of my triple pulley, but those look like extration bolts to me, for when the pulley needs to come off. There is no threaded hole in the end of the crank.

There is the half moon keyway to orient the pulley, and my guess is that the orig was a press fit deal. I'm pretty sure I'll need to use a jack to press the hot pulley on the crank snout, but would like opinions on whether I should pre-drill a hole in the V groove for the roll pin, then insert the roll pin, and grind it as smooth as I can to the profile of the belt V groove.

The pulley drives everything. A rather large hyd pump, for all the hyd on the grader, the water pump, alternator, and this one has an optional power steering pump. So, it's gonna need to be pretty stout, and no way for it to walk back and forth, or round and round on the shaft.

Opinions? Other ideas? If the roll pin in the V groove will accelerate belt wear, I can deal with that, as belts are, of course, the sacrificial part of the job. I'm considering getting the pulley on there, and then drilling a new hole, through the pulley, and also through the OTHER V groove, just so I get it nice an tight, with no rocking. However, crank snouts are pretty hard metal, and the pulley is cast so drilling them will take a while. If I get it on and it is darn tight, maybe I won't do any drilling at all, and do some grading to see how it goes. But, the triple pulley is hard to find(model D, DD grader only app).

Opinions? Other ideas?

Could you weld a nut on the end of the crankshaft so you could use a bolt and large washer to hold the pulley on the shaft? It be tricky and could only weld a very little bit at a time because of the heat but wouldn't have to be but so strong as holding the pulley in place shouldn't take much pressure if all the belts line up correctly.

What crankshaft pulley are we talking about?? a W-226 (WD45) or a G-226 (D-17) ???????? They are different as is the water pump between the two engines. Either way, those crank pulleys are normally a slip/slide fit on the crank snout and the tapered nose bolt holds them from moving. The G-226 does have a key, but it still requires a pointed bolt to really secure it to the cranks nose.

I think, neither. Model D grader has a triple groove pulley. It would be more like the G-226 or D17 engine, but I have three grooves not two. The two groove pulley, has a coned inner taper where the side taper nose bolt goes into the pulley. Since this has three grooves, no room for the side bolt.

The two inner grooves run the hyd pump. The outer groove runs the water pump and the gen. I will have a modified pulley to run the D-17 water pump, my concern is keeping the pulley mated to the crankshaft. If it is a slip fit, then I'll just heat the heck out of the pulley, and press it on the crank.

Put D17 gas engine in one if remember went rite in.

Heat it really hot and then let the "shrink" of the very hot pulley drive the hydraulic pumps ??? That sounds like a bad idea from here. Hot enough will melt the front crank seal ?? Where is the pointed setscrew ?? That pulley has to be secured or it will work loose and ruin the pulley and the crankshafts nose.

(quoted from post at 09:40:19 05/20/19) Heat it really hot and then let the "shrink" of the very hot pulley drive the hydraulic pumps ??? That sounds like a bad idea from here. Hot enough will melt the front crank seal ?? Where is the pointed setscrew ?? That pulley has to be secured or it will work loose and ruin the pulley and the crankshafts nose.

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I'm also concerned about the front crank seal, it is brand new and would be bad to damage it with heat.

There is no set screw, pointed or otherwise. It is a 3 groove pulley, with a slot inset for the keyway inside the hub, and the three threaded holes on the end which is for a puller. The crank snout has the recess in it on the side where the pin bolt would be tightened on a normal pulley, like a D17. I do have a D17 pulley, and it has the bolt in the side, but on the 3 groove pulley, there is NO way to keep it on the shaft, except heat/press fit that I can see.

Where I started this is the recess in the crankshaft side continues all the way through the crankshaft, and is a 5/16in hole. I could bore a hole in the inner groove of the pulley I have and run a roll pin through the pulley, and the crank. Then grind it as smooth as possible to match the profile of the V groove.

I can't see any way but press/heat fit to keep the pulley on there. Of course, it would be pretty bad if it began to work free, and tear up the pulley and the crank snout. I think I need to pin it with the roll pin all the way through, even if it is press fit. I don't want the pulley working loose on the crank, or it will get very costly.

BTW, fitting the Gleaner E engine in the grader was pretty easy. I used a 9 spring HD pressure plate, and the larger D17 release bearing. The engine mounts lined up fine, and all the fittings are working out well. The Gleaner has the larger water pump than WD, and I need to find a T fitting for the exit of both cooling thermostats, but other than that, it's not a bad job.

This pulley thing, is about the last of the hassle.

Does the original not fit at all? I'm having a hard time figuring out the problem. Does it not use the tapered set screw? You should be able to have a machine shop bore the original from the W series engine to fit the larger crank nose on the E engine.
AaronSEIA

(quoted from post at 12:50:11 05/20/19) Does the original not fit at all? I'm having a hard time figuring out the problem. Does it not use the tapered set screw? You should be able to have a machine shop bore the original from the W series engine to fit the larger crank nose on the E engine.
AaronSEIA

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This IS the original pulley. It's explained above.

Inner groove, drives hyd pump
middle groove, drives hyd pump
outer groove, drives water pump, and alternator.

The Gleaner crank snout looks exactly the same as the WD45, and D17 snout. The old Gleaner pulley is a single groove with a taper and the taper has the side bolt. Can not use the Gleaner pulley, because I need THREE grooves for the hyd and water pump/alt.

That I understand. What I'm not following is why it doesn't work. It doesn't use the same large set screw as the Gleaner engine? The bore may be too small as the E crank has a bigger diameter, but unless they attach it differently, it should go on with some machining.
AaronSEIA

There is no set screw, side bolt, taper bolt, drift, roll pin, nothing on the 3 groove pulley. It is a pulley with three grooves. The crank dia is the same, and has a cut keyway for the half moon key. The only machined holes in the pulley are three triangle spaced 5/16 threaded holes in the end of the hub so a harmonic balancer puller can be used to pull the unit off the crank snout.

I can push the pulley on the end about 1/16" before it snugs up very tight. I PRESUME it was press/heat fit, but I don't know that.

I did a google search and weird, it is still avail.

https://www.agkits.com/allis-chalmers-crankshaft-pulley-74037126-74028472.aspx?msclkid=6123173808121ab9c6644bdb2d5e5d1c&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI)+Shopping&utm_term=4583657818626818&utm_content=All+Products

Only $643.84 Gulp...

You can see it has no set screw.

What held the pulley on the old engine?
AaronSEIA

This is a sample of the pulley I got with the Gleaner engine. It mated well to the Gleaner/D17 water pump. You can see the cone and the side/pin bolt on the far right of the pic with the locknut underneath.

http://mainetractorcrossing.com/crankshaft-pulleys/am4556-am5216-crankshaft-pulley-allis-chalmers-d17-gas.JPG

What held the 3 groove pulley on the engine that came out of the grader? The one you show being the right one is the crank pulley from a 426 engine. I suppose it's possible thats what they used. If it is, the 7040 parts book shows it being simply keyed to the crankshaft with a bolt ran in the end of the crankshaft. The line drawing in the 7040 parts book almost makes it look like the nose of the crank is tapered.
AaronSEIA

(quoted from post at 18:17:34 05/20/19) What held the 3 groove pulley on the engine that came out of the grader? The one you show being the right one is the crank pulley from a 426 engine. I suppose it's possible thats what they used. If it is, the 7040 parts book shows it being simply keyed to the crankshaft with a bolt ran in the end of the crankshaft. The line drawing in the 7040 parts book almost makes it look like the nose of the crank is tapered.
AaronSEIA

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That, is the very question I'm looking to answer. The engine that came out of the grader has the same non-conical/tapered crankshaft. It does not have a threaded hole for an end bolt, and there is no shoulder on the pulley, nor chamfer or ridge on the crank snout to tighten against. The hole in the pulley is not tapered, it is just like the hole in the single groove pulley, but has no bolt in the side to tighten into the side tapered hole in the crank snout.

I got the grader with the engine in pieces, and the pulley dropped in a pickle bucket, along with the water pump, gen, and a pile of bolts, and brackets. I know for certain it is the right pulley for the job. I just don't know if it is held on with press-fit, or if there was, or is some other method, which I've laid out above.

Options as I see it now:
1. Heat(moderately) the pulley, chill the shaft, keep it clean, line up the keyway with the half-moon key, and start pressing in, hope I can line it up well before it seizes.

2. Drill a 5/16" hole through the inner V groove, and line that up with existing 5/16" cross hole in crank, then insert roll pin drifted, and grind the ends flush as possible with V groove.

3. Burnish down crank well, get the pulley on, then drill through the middle V groove, the crank, and all the way through to the other end of the V groove, drift in a roll pin, and grind both ends of roll pin as smooth as I can to match the profile.

Or, it may be a staged approach. I heat the pulley, and start pressing it on. If I get a real snug fit, maybe leave it be, and monitor for movement. Then, deal with drilling, pinning later.

As an alternate, I could drill a 5/16" through the center of the inner V groove, and tap it to take an allen set screw with tapered tip. Then insert, check for depth, then remove the set screw, and grind it down so the head will be just recessed below the V groove. I will know where the recess is in the crank before assembly, so I will know where to drill and tap in the V groove.

I went out with a flashlight and looked at it again. I think I hit on the plan with my last comment above.

I'm going to measure the crank degrees from the keyway around to the side taper hole in the crank snout. Then transfer that around to the pulley. I will drill and tap a 5/16" hole in the center of the inner groove, so that it will align with the taper hole in the side of the crank snout.

Heat the pulley, and ice the shaft. Press in place. Insert and depth test an allen set screw, see how proud it juts out into the groove. Grind and taper that down so the allen will set just below the inner depth of the V groove. Put some thread lock on the allen set screw and torque it.

There will be a modest wear component to the belt that runs in that groove, but I can live with the reduced belt life. Belts are cheap.

I will mark the joint of the crank and pulley where it mates with some glyptol to see if there is any movement later.