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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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AC question

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sodly

01-10-2019 20:16:49




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Please bear with this AC newbie. What was the first AC tractor (under 100 hp) to have an independent PTO? I mean, on the D series when you pushed the foot clutch the PTO stopped turning. What was the first AC tractor that the PTO continued operation even when the foot clutch was depressed? Did any of the 100 series tractors have this feature?




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coshoo

01-18-2019 03:07:45




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
There was a version of the D15 (if not others) on which the Power Director lever was forward and reverse, not 2 speeds. It would be ideal for what you're doing, but they're kind of a rare bird.



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Traditional Farmer

01-18-2019 05:32:08




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 Re: AC question in reply to coshoo, 01-18-2019 03:07:45  
I think if the reverser is in the tractor it can no longer have 540 PTO.



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super92

01-15-2019 05:38:35




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
Around the middle of 1961 the D10/D12 tractors came with an independent pto. At the same time they went to a 12 volt electrical system and a larger engine along with an increase in power. AC didn't start putting series II decals on these two models till 1963.



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16-30 oilpull

01-12-2019 16:37:55




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
I see your concerned about backing up with a bush hog. An overrunning coupler on the pto helps a great deal. not perfect but you can clutch and shift pretty quick. use one on my 185. I think cost about 100.



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16-30 oilpull

01-12-2019 14:29:58




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
sodly ,the d-10 I refer to PTO has nothing to do with the foot clutch. It is independent. It has it's own control lever behind the seat and nothing you do with foot clutch affects it. No 2 stage clutch.



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sodly

01-11-2019 11:04:20




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
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How is this even possible if the tractor is rolling forward to shift into reverse without the (foot) clutch? Or vice versa?



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Bob Bancroft

01-11-2019 11:34:47




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-11-2019 11:04:20  
As you can see, it's not so much the model, but it's conditional factors. You can shift with the power director, or hand clutch, if, the tractor ground travel is stopped, the oil is warm, your clutch is in good working order [no warped plates] your shifter is in good condition, you're fast, and know what you're doing!



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Brian G. NY

01-11-2019 09:31:39




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
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Interesting......

I can't with either my WD or WD-45 but I can with the D-17 if I do it quickly. That works out well as I do most of my bushhoggin' with the D-17.



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old

01-11-2019 12:26:29




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 Re: AC question in reply to Brian G. NY, 01-11-2019 09:31:39  
That's odd. On my WD45 I can shift gear using the hand clutch but I cannot shift gears on my D-17 with the hand clutch



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sodly

01-11-2019 07:39:28




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
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Thanks for the update guys. That's what I suspected.
Dr Allis, you can shift from forward to reverse without the clutch?!!?



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old

01-11-2019 08:50:00




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-11-2019 07:39:28  
I have a number of A/C tractors. On my WD45 you can shift form forward to reverse using the hand clutch but on my D-17 I cannot do that.



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DrAllis

01-11-2019 07:27:46




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
Anything with the Hi/Low Power Director clutch kills the PTO when you step on the foot clutch. For those of us who are used to it, it's not really that big of deal when the tractors hydraulic oil is fully warmed up. Many times you don't even need to step on the foot clutch to shift and if you do it is very quick with no time lost.



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sodly

01-11-2019 07:14:54




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
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The reason I bring this up is because I've often fancied owning a D-series or a 100 series tractor but would need to be able to do chores like bush-hogging with it. However, I'm told the Power Director really makes that difficult if you have a lot of backing up to do. The foot clutch kills the PTO every time you step on it to change from forward to reverse-- not ideal with a mower behind you.
So the later D10 and D12s have an live PTO where you can push the clutch down part way to stop the tractor without stopping the PTO? But the D15 and D17 tractors did not?
Were there any other later AC tractors (besides the 160) that had this ability? Or an independent PTO that ran regardless of the foot clutch? The 170... 180... 190... 200? I'm not that familiar with all of them and how they differ from one another. Not interested in a foreign-built model.

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Bob Bancroft

01-11-2019 07:25:49




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-11-2019 07:14:54  
I don't know how the later D10-D12 PTO was engaged. Whether a two stage engine clutch, or a separate clutch in the rear. A look at the parts diagram would be instructional. I will guess it's a separate clutch, as I don't recall AC using a double clutch.

The D14-15-17-19, as well as the 170-175-180-185-190-190XT-200 all worked the same way- engine clutch stopped PTO. Use the "power director" to maintain PTO operation.

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DrAllis

01-11-2019 05:24:10




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
Early generation D10-12's did NOT have a live or independent PTO, but they did have a PTO. I believe it was the Series 2 and 3 models that had a truly independent PTO similar to what Oliver used.



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Traditional Farmer

01-11-2019 03:24:38




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
5040 had LPTO



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Bob Bancroft

01-11-2019 01:15:48




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 Re: AC question in reply to sodly, 01-10-2019 20:16:49  
The One-Sixty/160 had a two stage engine clutch, both stages being controlled by the foot pedal. This tractor was AC in name only as it was built by Renault.



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16-30 oilpull

01-11-2019 02:42:32




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 Re: AC question in reply to Bob Bancroft, 01-11-2019 01:15:48  
I have a D-10 with live independent PTO. My earlier D-12 does not so was that an option or just on the later ones?



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Bob Bancroft

01-11-2019 03:11:13




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 Re: AC question in reply to 16-30 oilpull, 01-11-2019 02:42:32  
There were no D10-D12's around here, so I have no experience with them. I believe they got up to a series III, so changes were obviously made. I don't believe live PTO was an earlier option, but came later, as with your tractors.



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