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Questions about Allis Chalmers

D

doghouseexpress

Member
Thanks to all, heres some more information. The reason for hauling a container is just to get the empty 40 ft container to the back of my property, its in Florida and its all flat, so this will be a one time tug to the spot for two empty shipping containers that I need to place so I can tear down my old barn and have the new arch steel building put in place, as a hurricane shelter and a work shop, my current barn is a junk disaster of added on buildings to a pole barn that the previous owners built,..its got to go!! The containers will be on axle's that I built for transport. The rub is that I finally got my girl to OK the purchase of a tractor,but....it has to do everything. End of world PTO attachments waterpump for the well, generator for back up power. small plow, and disc for 3 acre garden and anything else 3 point hitch that I can find and or build. The pulley if for a buzzsaw. I have to be able to convert to propane if need be. I can do all that with the gas engine. I personally have a thing for the old orange girl we had on our farm, it was a legit three wheel Allis, and I literally spent my childhood on that tractor in upstate NY on a 400 acre farm. I'm not even sure what model it was, I know it was smaller than a WD and it had one tire in front on a solid steel wheel. So I would like to have everything with one tractor.
Attachments (3 point) tow capability (as described above) nostalgia, because I miss that orange tractor, and it has taken me 5 years to convince my girl that I need a bigger tractor, and now is my chance to jump before she changes her mind and makes me sleep in the barn with all my VW bugs......again.
I found a nice WD for sale in Wisconsin, but can't get the place to call me back or answer and email. It looks like it has everything but I cant tell about the 3 point, the photos are not that good.
Thanks for all your help, I've been off the farm now for almost 35 years and a lot of my knowledge is based on a 12 year old boy driving around an orange tractor.

The top pic is of the tractor I want to buy, but I can't tell if the 3 point is intact, because the Allis I had when I was a kid (second pic) had no 3 point for me to be able to compare it to. The salesman is trying to find out for me, but their communication skills are not very good.

I'm also not to good with computer forums and don't know where to put this post to get the right answers, thanks for the help in advance.
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cvphoto4928.jpg
 
If you buy that WD you will have the find a 3 point for it because it doesn't have a 3 point on it. All it has is the snap coupler arms.
 
Smaller than a wd with three point would be a CA with three point adapter on the Allis quick attach arms.
 
Those are really nice tires on the WD. Must be replacement rims on it too, as the tires and rims look well matched, and bigger than any standard WD size.

There are some brackets there making it look like there was an add on three point hitch at one time.
 
The picture of a smaller tractor shows a Model C, not a CA. The picture of the WD shows a top link connection, but no 3 pt. conversion. You"d have to add the lift arms to make it work. There was no factory 3pt for either of those tractors.
 

thanks, can you tell me which Allis that is similar to these two that has 3 point?
The only thing stopping me from buying this tractor is the 3 point.
 
You can get an after market 3 pt conversion for most AC tractors. I believe the D-15 was the first to come out with a factory 3 pt. I may be wrong so don't quote me. I would think you could find one closer than up here. Where in WI is it?
 
From what I've seen on pics of other WD's this unit has the bars (that silver bar that is joining the two side bars must be removed as well as the chain) that raise and lower and the pins down under near the drawbar to have a 3 point hitch. If I'm seeing this right. I'm trying to get an answer from the seller but communication doesn't appear to be an easy task for them. It sure seems to me that the mechanism is there for 3 point, but I'm not 100%, like I said the C we had 35 years ago didn't have 3 point, just a drawbar.
Trying to locate a tractor like this in FL is hard, they don't pop up very often and all the good ones seem to be in the Midwest.
BTW thanks for the info so far, it has helped me greatly,...I'm 80% sure this tractor will work for me,...now to get the rest of the way.
 
This 47 is my real favorite, I'd totally get it right now if it had the 3 point, but it looks like the lifting arms are not even there.
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cvphoto5020.jpg
 
Thats a WC, they didn't have them, nor the pump, nor the hand clutch. First with the 3 pt would be something in the D series. You can put a 3 point on a WD or WD45 for about $400 or build one if you are handy.
AaronSEIA
 
I live in La Crosse, about 20 miles from Cashton so I am familiar with Portland Implement 608-654-5575. I am convalescing from surgery but I did call them. As luck would have it I talked to the Sales Person you talked with, Kevin. He was very good and explained they have not had a chance to look at the 3 pt. yet. We had a quite a bit of snow here so it is buried in the snow right now. Kevin did say he would give you a call to give a status update.

My own experience is dealers that far away don't respond as well than if the sale was closer. I assume they see those sales as a low percentage closure rate given distance, ability to look at the item, and freight. Anyway, I hope he calls and you can get your question answered. Good Luck.

Paul
 
I was re-reading a couple of the posts. Aaron of SEIA points out there was no factory 3pt for that tractor. You know, if you want a real 3pt. you might want to look at a D Series with a factory 3pt. They might also be easier for you to get onto given you're slightly older now.

Just a thought.

Paul
 
Maybe advertise for what you are looking for and see if there is anything closer. What is it going to cost to get it home? I know you said there is not much close but maybe there is. Maybe get more tractor for the same money? Just a thought.
 
I'm with 2510 Paul. A D series is MUCH easier to get on than a WD, WD45, C, or CA. D17 would be perfect. Series 4 even came with factory 3 pt, but you sacrifice the belt pulley to do it. I would look for an alternative way to power the buzz saw. The belt pulley requirement is the biggest kink in your plans.
AaronSEIA
 
Thanks for giving them a call, I was reluctant to mention the name of the dealer.
1.I sent them an email on Sunday/ no response
2.Then I called them on Monday/ no answer
3.I called again on Tuesday talked to woman who put me on hold 3 separate times/ then took my info and nobody called me back
4.I called again on Wednesday and finally spoke to Kevin? I think, and I told him that the only thing keeping me from buying this unit was the 3 point issue, he said the other salesman took the tractor in on trade and he would have to ask him about the 3 point? Then I asked him if they had a loading dock and I would come get it as long as the 3 point arms raised and lowered/ and that was that....its now Friday night, and no call, no email, no text....not a peep.
I'm not going to beg a dealer to take my money.
Hope you feel better soon.
 
I'm leaning towards a D, just because I need that 3 point to work all the time, maybe I can just hook an old small block to my buzzsaw.
 
If you are handy, drive the buzz saw off the PTO and use a car tire for the drive. It'd be friction just like the belt was and would probably run the same speed depending on the size tire you run.
AaronSEIA
 
realistically the only thing that would use the pulley is the buzzsaw, so I don't really need it, but........its so much fun seeing the look on her face when I get it out of the barn and set it up, I really like that!!
 

cvphoto5221.jpg

So the dealer called me this morning, and will now check on the ability to raise and lower these arms that are hooked to the silver bar and the chain. He'll get back to me on Monday. So my question to you guys is.....what makes these arms raise and lower? Is there a linkage that goes up under the tractor? does it use hyd. fluid and if so from what pump? I don't see any fluid hoses on it anywhere. Does they raise and lower with a hand clutch,...basically I have no idea because our C looked like the WD below and I have no way to know how it would work.

cvphoto5222.jpg
 
There is a lever on the quadrant by the steering wheel that controls the hydraulic pump. There should be 2 cylinders that raise the lift arms. It's a one way high pressure low volume system. Lifts only and gravity lowers. No down pressure. It is missing the lift arm latches. I don't know what the reason is for the chain and the pipe.
 
Guessing the chain from the lift arms going under the drawbar is for putting something tongue heavy on there. Lift up on the arms and the chain will carry some of the tongue weight. The pipe is to keep the arms from pulling inward and bending/cracking if the chain has a heavy load on it?

The lift arms work off the hydraulic pump in the belly of the tractor. They will work anytime the foot clutch is released. If you need to stop directional travel while leaving the pto running or hydraulics lifting you snap the hand clutch forward but leave the foot clutch alone.
 
I see your frustration. I would have been done at step 2 or 3. Again, Good Luck. Paul

Oh, could you convert the buzz saw to run off the 3pt and pto? Obvious comment but I just had to through it out there.
 
OK so if its in gear and the PTO is running, to stop the tractor from moving (forward or reverse) I use the hand clutch to stop the tractor and leave the foot clutch alone so the PTO continues to operate the implement. Thanks, I didn't know that, also since I can't see the belly of the tractor, I couldn't see the hyd. pump. Is it hooked to the front shaft of the pto?

I'll get the hang of this sooner or later, this tractor is still the best one I could find...so far.
 
I can't figure out that bar/chain combo either, but as long as those arm go up under power and then come back down with gravity I'm good with that. Any idea how much weight those arms can lift?
 
The hydraulic pump is internal.

Yes if you want to keep the pto spinning or hydraulics working you stop forward or reverse travel with the hand clutch. The hand clutch is a wet clutch spinning in oil so you can use it to inch or creep along if needed also.

I'm almost positive the chain and pipe are to support the fixed drawbar. One of my WDs drawbars has been broken and welded a few times from tongue heavy loads. Transferring some of that load to the rockshaft would help that situation.

My WD will lift almost exactly what it takes to lift the front tires off the ground. Not sure how much that is but it's plenty.
 
Thanks, that clears up some things I was missing.
We had an Allis 5040 (I think early 80's) one of the few new tractors we had that did everything and did it well, that tractor ran all day everyday. Then there was the main tractor a JD 4010 early 70's with a bucket loader and a wide front end (after my uncle broke off the narrow front hitting a ditch going too fast one day). We also had a new mid 80's 4wd Case with a bucket loader, it was new and us kids weren't allowed anywhere near it, (my grandfathers toy!!).
That C was all mine,.. I raked hay all day with it and started everyday with a trailer load of sweet corn for our roadside corn stand, then picked rocks off the fields the rest of the time.
As much as I'd just love to have another C, this time I need one tractor to do it all, and the WD looks close enough to the C to make me feel all nostalgic and be able to get the work done. I don't even know where to begin when I want a loader....thats a whole other problem!! and down the road a few years.
 
Hyd pump is actually mounted to the right side of the torque housing just ahead of the transmission. AC made a trip bucket loader, the model 9 that fits a WD. Not as handy as a full hyd one, but it works very well. You can also mount a hyd pump somewhere and use a full hyd loader. With some fab work, almost anything can be made to fit.
AaronSEIA
 
I don't mind having the trip bucket, I'm not looking to do heavy excavating just to carry stuff around and drop it into a pile. Once I get the tractor I'll be able to make all kinds of things for it. I have 4 different welders, and access to all kinds of materials. The biggest thing was to understand the capabilities of the tractor. It's larger than the C, heavier, and has more HP, but in all reality, the last time I used a farm tractor was the 80's (been using skid steers down here in FL), and our C had none of the options that I need to make all this work. It was hard enough to get my girl to let me add another vehicle (actually going to have to sell my single axle semi to make room for this tractor in the barn)because I'm taking down the barn and putting up a more hurricane proof arch steel building (Irma went right over the place last year, did some damage, enough to finally wake her up to having a hurricane shelter on site)so as soon as I get the word from the tractor guy in Wisconsin then I can move forward with the project. Thanks again to everyone and the info.
 

We used to lift Hogs and Steers when butchering with my Grandad's WD with AC Loader...it would lift them right up...
 
So here's the info on the tractor from the dealer.
It appears to have a W45 engine in it.
There is an issue with the starter, (also its had a 12 volt conversion...or did it come 12 volt, I don't know when the tractors went from 6 to 12)
There is a possible throw out bearing ( some noise at 20 degrees outside temp, no noise after being in the warm shop all night)
The 3 point arms do operate as they should.
I'm not sure that doing a clutch and splitting the tractor is where I want to be, and I'm not sure that dealing with an engine swap is the best idea.
What do you guys think? its mainly the engine change that has me concerned,.. I don't have enough experience with farm tractors to be playing games and chasing parts on a frankentractor.
 
They would have been 6v from the factory. You can have the engine out in under 2 hours even if you don't know what you are doing. Under an hour if you've done it before. What are they asking? I know of a lot of nothing wrong WD and WD45 that struggle to bring $1000-1500.
AaronSEIA
 
I guess you would wonder why the engine switch. I have a B that has a power unit engine in it. Not factory. But the rest would bother me alot. Price just went way down. As said above, one in alot better condition won't bring the asking price. I say leave it sit and keep looking. You always seem to stick alot of money in them anyway.
 
I get it, I don't mind putting some money into it,but I've been down the converted, engine swapped route before and it seemed like I was never able to get the parts on the first try. I'll take your advice and I'll take more time and look for a better tractor. That said, the advice and info you all gave me on this forum was greatly appreciated...thanks a bunch!!
 
They're asking $1,250, so it wasn't a bad deal when the ad said "runs good"...now to find out starter problems, throwout bearing issue, and the voltage conversion, engine swap.
The salesman was up front with me, don't get me wrong,.....it just took a week to get the answers, and then to have him add to his message "We do have other interested parties, so let me know soon".....yet it took him a week to get me the answers I needed, so in a nut shell. I'll pass on this one. Thanks again to everyone for the help.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!
 
The engine swap wouldn't bother me at all. Parts for either one are not an issue. For $1250 you could find one that didn't need the work.
AaronSEIA
 
Engine swap is no biggy. Parts are available for either motor and they are completely interchangable. I'd rather a 12v tractor than a 6v one. I doubt there is anything wrong with the TO bearing, they don't generally "warm up", more probable is the hydraulic pump knocks when cold. Both of my WD's do that when cold and from talking with my father in law who was around when both were new they have always done it (expecially when the lift lever is at the top of the quadrant).

Having said that for 1250 you should have your choice at just about an WD.
 
There are a few CA's on Craigslist in the Lancaster, PA area. One of them is $900 with a tap in the engine. Another has quite a few attachments included. Might be worth your time to check it out. Also a couple of D's that could interest you.
 
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