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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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ALLIS B

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Yohon45

08-10-2017 18:40:51




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So we have been in the process of restoring a 55 Allis B. After completing the engine over haul and doing a little paint, we put the new tires on and mounted them on the tractor. We decided to try and pull start it (cranking wasn't doing the trick). So we hooked up the New Holland to it and tried to pop the clutch....when we did the left wheel was turning forward as expected but the right wheel was turning the opposite direction! So before we split the tractor I am looking for any advise on what it could be? Thanks in advance!

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Yohon45

09-14-2017 14:09:45




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
We timed the Mag using the impulse coupling method, good spark and gas flow, good compression. Checked the inspection hole and have it centered.



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Yohon45

09-14-2017 12:27:10




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
OK, got her all put back together and painted, however now it seems to be an ignition issue. We have spark and have set the timing. It burns the gas coming in when we pull it around but it doesn't seem to want to fire on its own and stay running. Thoughts?



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Yohon45

08-21-2017 15:07:17




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
Ok finally back it tonight. Plus are out and motor turns easier with no compression. We have the shifting forks out and can easily crank the motor but when I engage the pto I get about 1 full crank with the hand crank and it locks up.



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old

08-21-2017 15:51:20




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-21-2017 15:07:17  
Sounds like you may have a bad bearing or other such thing wrong In the PTO area.



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john2189

08-12-2017 20:25:15




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
with one rear wheel jacked up in neutral with the pto engaged and trans in neutral does the pto shaft turn while turning the engine over? if so top shaft is free

with one wheel jacked up and in gear and turning engine over, will the wheel turn? if so the bottom shaft is free.

if wheel doesn't turn, the trans is locked in two gears



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Yohon45

08-12-2017 13:34:52




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
Yes when it is in neutral and 1 wheel off the ground the wheel spins freely, same when we tried the other side. We tried all forward gears and each time it fails to turn the motor over. We are you g to try the ATF and pull g it around with out the plugs in. Hopefully that does the trick....just really confused as to why we would be able to hand crank the motor but not be able to budge it popping the clutch.

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Dick L

08-12-2017 19:33:10




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-12-2017 13:34:52  
[Yes when it is in neutral and 1 wheel off the ground the wheel spins freely, same when we tried the other side]

This proves that the bottom shaft is not turning. If you checked and the shifting forks are in place it would have to be frozen bearings on the bottom shaft in the pictures.

third party image

third party image

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old

08-12-2017 13:54:10




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-12-2017 13:34:52  
Only other thing I can think of as to why it does not turn over when pulling it is if it does not weight enough on the rear to keep the tires from getting good traction



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Yohon45

08-12-2017 11:37:27




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
That's where we are stumped because we can hand crank the engine fairly easily from the front but as soon as you try to spin the tires from the rear it's like nothing wants to move we tried all three forward gears and it still didn't move the engine we will pull the plugs and put ATF on it and see if that helps but right now we're all scratching our heads



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old

08-12-2017 13:06:13




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-12-2017 11:37:27  
With one tire jacked up and the transmission out of gear can you freely spin the tire that is jacked up?? If you cannot spin it real easy or not at all good chance it is locked in 2 gears in the transmission and that would cause the problems your having



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Yohon45

08-12-2017 11:19:46




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
Ok tried that, still nothing all it wants to do it turn the other tire, nothing moving in the front end



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old

08-12-2017 11:28:35




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-12-2017 11:19:46  
What gear are you using?? You need to use the highest gear it has and even then if the engine is real tight from are build it may not turn very easy if at all. Pull all the plugs out and put in a little ATF in each cylinder and then try to turn it over with the back wheel leaving the plugs out. I have rebuilt more then one engine that where so tight one had a hard time spinning them over by hand.

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Yohon45

08-12-2017 09:29:34




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
So I got the rear lifted up, in gear, tires spin fly wheel and motor dont move. Feels like it's in neutral....any thoughts?



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old

08-12-2017 10:58:06




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-12-2017 09:29:34  
If you have both back tires off the ground yep it will do that since there is nothing holding the diff from spinning the other tire. These things do not have a locked up rear end in them if they did you could NEVER make a turn. Your car or truck will do the exact same thing. Set one rear tire on the ground then try to spin the engine with the tire that if off the ground



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Yohon45

08-11-2017 15:50:12




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
Ok, will try and mess with the gears tonight and see how it goes. That would explain why it wouldn't turn the motor over.



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old

08-11-2017 18:26:50




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-11-2017 15:50:12  
You can also carefully put a pipe wrench on the PTO wit hit in gear and see if you can turn the engine over that way. And also pull the plugs out and put a little ATF in each cylinder so as to lube up the rings well so it will spin over easier



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Yohon45

08-11-2017 14:33:53




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
Yes it does roll freely when in neutral but when it is in gear, even when we have it lifted up the wheels go opposite direction



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old

08-11-2017 15:34:00




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-11-2017 14:33:53  
In gear and jacked up the the wheel spinning different direction is normal and if they did not the you would have a problem. That is how the diff works. If it did not work like that it would be super hard to make any thing turn as in go right or left since in a turn one wheel has to go faster then the other or you cannot make a turn.



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Yohon45

08-11-2017 12:26:42




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
That was one of the first things we did. Everything shifted fine-fluid was milky so we will replace that- but as far as we could see the forks were in the right spot and everything seemed normal....will double check it tonight



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Dick L

08-11-2017 18:55:53




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-11-2017 12:26:42  
No way you can see that the forks are in correctly with your eyes. Unless you can somehow see thru cast iron. You find out when you get it buttoned up and it will not move. It may not be your problem but sounds like it if I read your posts correctly. These are the forks that have to fit into the slide gear grooves.

third party image

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Dick L

08-11-2017 12:21:50




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
You will need to pull the side cover on the transmission. More than likely you have a slide gear that the shifting fork is not in the slide gear groove. It can be fun getting the side cover back on and have both forks in the grooves. I have at times took more than two tries.

third party image

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Yohon45

08-11-2017 09:43:53




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
Yes, and once it was all buttoned up we filled it up with synthetic oil and have been cranking it over everyday to make sure it stayed lose.



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Yohon45

08-11-2017 07:56:32




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
OK we will try that, if that doesn't do the trick what would the next move be? Our thoughts were that something in the drive shaft/tranny/rear end wasn't working right.



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old

08-11-2017 14:26:38




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-11-2017 07:56:32  
Does it roll freely when out of gear?? You could have it stuck in 2 gears which will lock up the rear end and cause it to do what it is doing



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wbecker

08-11-2017 07:51:48




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
The fresh engine is a little tight. Take out the plugs, drain the carb and turn off the fuel, so you don't wash the cylinders with gas, then pull it for a while. Then put it together and try again.]



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Keith Molden

08-11-2017 04:42:29




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
As others have said, that is normal. Are you pulling it on grass or gravel? Both may not be enough to make it turn over as you need. You may have to get it on pavement and even then sometimes it may slide. If it does, pull the plugs and pull it a little bit & see if it still slide. If it doesn't slide, pull it a little bit while watching the oil pressure gage, it should come up. Then put the plugs back in & try to pull start it.

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Yohon45

08-11-2017 04:45:57




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Keith Molden, 08-11-2017 04:42:29  
We did get it on pavement but it didn't help. The engine did t turn over at all while popping it in gear. Take the plugs out and try again?



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Jr1983

08-11-2017 03:59:03




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
Does it turn over properly by hand?



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Yohon45

08-11-2017 04:00:10




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Jr1983, 08-11-2017 03:59:03  
As far as we can tell yes.



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teddy52food

08-10-2017 20:48:26




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
That is normal with a differential. How tight is that engine?????



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Yohon45

08-11-2017 03:58:51




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to teddy52food, 08-10-2017 20:48:26  
Not too tight, we are able to hand crank it over.



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M Nut

08-10-2017 19:57:13




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 18:40:51  
Will need to use high (3) gear to turn the engine over. Wheels will skid in the lower gears.



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Yohon45

08-10-2017 19:59:50




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to M Nut, 08-10-2017 19:57:13  
We did, we tried all 3 forward gears but everyone didn't pop the motor over, and each one had the one rear wheel spinning the opposite direction.



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old

08-11-2017 08:37:52




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 19:59:50  
When you put the engine together did you use a lube on all moving parts?? I.E. some sort of lube on the rod and main bearings and the rings/pistons??



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M Nut

08-10-2017 20:07:21




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 Re: ALLIS B in reply to Yohon45, 08-10-2017 19:59:50  
Huh. Well, I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in. I've just seen them do that when traction conditions are poor (snow on the ground), but I'm pretty sure traction isn't your issue this time of year.



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