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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

Won't Run

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nevertomany

08-06-2017 18:43:10




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Howdy all,

I have a 1948 Allis-Chalmers B with a CE engine. It has been an ongoing project. Last month i did a 12V conversion on it, but before that it had sat for 3 months while i gathered funds and parts. Now i cannot get the engine to run. I have verified compression, which i will retest tomorow and post results. I have checked for spark, spark is present. Fuel is present at carb, I'm not sure how to check and see if it is getting past the carb. I am not sure on how a magneto works, does anyone know where i can get information on how these work? Although i do know that i have spark at the plug. I am not sure what else the problem could be. Any help would be great!

Thanks, Greg

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nevertomany

09-17-2017 18:22:16




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
I know it's been over a month since i updated on here but i would like to thank you all and say that I had the tractor running just about 30 minutes ago after tearing down carb, rebuilding it, finding a problem, tearing it down again, then reinstalling it, this B finally started and ran. It died quickly but i believe that was because the carb bowl was not yet full of fuel. I found a few glaring issues that must be taken care of but I can now finish the 12V conversion.

Great thanks to all who replied,

Greg

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nevertomany

08-10-2017 18:43:09




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
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Thank ya much I'll pick that stuff up tomorrow night. I checked with the place that I got the battery from, they said it could still have a warranty, so hopefully it does. I'm gonna install the wiring for the 12V alternator next week as well hopefully so I won't ruin the new battery.

Thanks,

Greg



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nevertomany

08-09-2017 20:08:02




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
I appreciate your input, you saved me $50 on a kit, and a kit that has instructions even! Which will help since I've never been in one. Gonna take it over to my grandpa's (he's been restoring 2N, 9N, and 8N's for a few years now so he's glad to help and I help him) and me and him are gonna rebuild it Saturday or Sunday. The kit i seen at a antique tractor parts supplier online here was $77.99 I believe, that walker kit was 17 or 18.99. I'll go up and get it and the battery Friday after work. Thanks to all who have helped.

Greg

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old

08-10-2017 09:56:54




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-09-2017 20:08:02  
Those carbs are very simple but one can easily miss things in the passage ways so i would make sure you also bu ya torch tip cleaner tool so you can poke out all the passageways. Also bu ya couple cans of the O'Reilly's carb cleaner spray that way you also have what you need to spray it out good



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nevertomany

08-09-2017 19:24:25




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
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I called the one north of me about 45min ago, I found the number, gave it to em and they got one comin. I greatly appreciated it, what looks to be the same kit from a tractor dealer was 77$ and the Walker was 18$. I appreciate that very much. Hopefully I can swing up on Friday and get it and the battery.

Thanks,

Greg



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old

08-09-2017 19:44:14




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-09-2017 19:24:25  
The Walker brand kits come with good instruction sheets so if you read it and follow it you should have little to no problems



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nevertomany

08-09-2017 17:22:12




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
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Well thank you for the advice there's an oriellys in the town north of me. I'll see what I can dig up there.

Thanks

Greg



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old

08-09-2017 19:19:59




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-09-2017 17:22:12  
If they cannot find you the kit number let me know and I know my local one can get that info.



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nevertomany

08-09-2017 15:48:27




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
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As far as the gasket goes do yall think I could make my own gasket out of gasket material. A good rebuild kit is north of $50 and I had planned on buying a batter for it making funds short. What else should I look for? I know nothing about carbs, I have started doing research on them though.

Thank you everyone for the help,

Greg

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nevertomany

08-08-2017 19:23:39




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
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Good evenin,

Late this evenin, around 2115 Eastern Time, i got home and started work on the tractor. Air cleaner was already off from working on it Sunday, so i sprayed the carb cleaner in intake while cranking and engine briefly started. I noticed 2 things, the gasket where the carb meets the intake is laying on the mower deck, (looking for a new kit with that gasket so a new gasket can be properly installed), and when I sprayed the carb cleaner in, 1. it would start but i couldn't keep it running for more than a second or two, 2. large amounts came back out the throat of the carb back at me. But the most important piece of information is obviously that the engine (at least to my eyes and ears) ran under its own power for a split second. A compression test before that showed 110psi approx on each cylinder. I checked for fuel at the carb after the carb cleaner test and there is a steady flow of fuel out of the 1/4" rubber line attached to the carburetor, is this sufficient size for this size motor? The metal line was broken and the 1/4" rubber was all I had on hand so I cut old metal fittings off and put new line on. The sediment bowl was removed and completely cleaned in fresh gas on Sunday.

Hopefully this all makes sense, thanks for all the help,

Greg

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old

08-09-2017 17:13:16




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-08-2017 19:23:39  
Do not know where you are but I buy carb kits all day long in the $20-25 range. I buy the O'Reilly's auto part kits Walker brand



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Dick L

08-09-2017 15:21:21




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-08-2017 19:23:39  
The carburetor cleaner proved that your timing and spark is fine. Not having a gasket could very well be your problem. That is a good compression reading which means you would have ample vacuum at the block. A vacuum leak at the manifold or carburetor would keep it from running. Misting starter fluid without a vacuum leak at or in the manifold would let you keep it running on the starter fluid. That would be if you didn't over mist or under mist. Having a good flow of gas at the carburetor is a good thing but does not mean a proper fuel air mixture is coming out of the carburetor into the manifold. Sounds to me like you are down to the manifold and carburetor to dig thru for problems.

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docmirror

08-08-2017 12:18:36




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
You need three things for an engine to run;

1 Compression

2 Fuel/air in proper ratio(14:1 or so)

3 Properly timed spark.
Most issues of not running after sitting are 2 and 3. If the magneto was never off, and you have only changed the plugs, I will assume you put the wires back on where they came off the plugs. Just to make sure you are not grounding the mag, remove the ground wire from the side of the mag so it cannot be grounded accidentally.
You will need a can of generic "carb cleaner", can be bought from Walmart, or any auto parts store for a couple bucks. Put the little red hose on the carb cleaner can nozzle.

Remove the hose from the air cleaner to the carb inlet so the carb inlet is open. Leave the choke off, so the choke plate is open in the carb. Leave the fuel petcock closed, so no fuel is going to the carb. Set the throttle to about 1/4 to 1/3 open. While someone else cranks the engine over, use the carb cleaner about 4" back from the carb inlet, and spray the carb cleaner into the carb inlet. The engine should fire.

If the engine does not fire while you spray the carb cleaner into the intake. Report back results and we will check your magneto. If the engine runs, investigate your fuel supply from the tank to the carb fuel inlet. If you have fuel flow to the carb report back those results.

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nevertomany

08-08-2017 06:57:26




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
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Let me try to explain a little better. Your assumption is correct, i had it running 3 times for 10+ minutes before it sat for 3 months. It would just take a jumper box to get it to start. But your correct, it did run before I left it sat for 3 months. I'm not sure why they were going to scrap it, it ran. The whole reason it sat is so I could buy a new battery and alternator so the battery in it would be able to charge. I now know it has nothing to do with the Magento, but someone put a 12V batt in it with only a 6V gen so batt was always dead from cranking, so I wanted to attack that first, it ended up being more costly then I hoped (on top of paying way to much for the tractor to begin with) so it had to sit. 2 months ago I installed the alternator (it's not hooked up to anything yet) and since I did that I haven't been able to make it run. It sat for 3-4 months. In the time it sat, I installed a new set of autolite spark plugs from TSC, took carb off and thoroughly cleaned it, and changed engine coolant. I do know that when I had it running the first time oil pressure seemed low so i was also looking into a rebuild. I'm sorry for l the confusion, I'm only 21 and don't know much about the older tractors. I'm still trying to learn. Thats why I don't understand why it won't run now, because I had run it before. Hopefully this makes a little more sense now.

Thanks,

Greg

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nevertomany

08-08-2017 04:44:39




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
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Magneto was never off, and the wire you see is a wire to s toggle switch to ground. The only reason I made a comment is when I got this tractor, I saved it from the scrap, but it had a bad battery, I haven't been able to get a new one, so the only way I've been able to crank it over is to pull the only other battery I have outta my truck to use it to crank the tractor. That's all the battery comment is in there for. Right now I have no way to crank it.

Thanks, the helps much appreciated,

Greg

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Dick L

08-08-2017 06:31:07




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-08-2017 04:44:39  
I seem to be an assumption kinda guy. I reread the original post. I took the 3 set for three months as it ran 3 months ago. I take it now that it has not run since you have had it. If it has not run and has spark then timing of spark to the proper plug and carburetor would be where I would check now. Spark to number one plug has to be on the compression stroke. That is when you can feel air exiting number one plug hole and both valves to that cylinder is closed. When you are sure of this then a mist of starting fluid will tell you if you have a carburetor problem.

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nevertomany

08-07-2017 07:07:08




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
Thanks for the quick replies. First thing I'll do tonight is check the firing order. I'll post back when I know more. Thanks.



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Dick L

08-07-2017 04:00:21




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
As stated it is probly the firing order. A quick check to see if the carburetor jets are plugged is to shoot a mist of starting fluid into the carburetor.



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nevertomany

08-07-2017 18:49:22




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to Dick L, 08-07-2017 04:00:21  
I looked at the firing order, assuming it is 1-2-4-3, (ive lost my book and have no way to verify this), I believe the firing order and spark plug wire order is correct. Assuming the pictures I try to post show up i will give you the views as I see them and what i think it is. Is this correct? All the help is appreciated. When i got home it was dark and i was unable to do the compression test, although from the sounds that isnt an issue at all. Should have a new battery for it this week also. Been connecting my truck battery to the battery cables. Truck battery is a JD batt rated at 690CCA.

Thanks,
Greg
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Dick L

08-08-2017 03:38:57




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-07-2017 18:49:22  
The firing order is correct but that is a magneto and has nothing to do with 12 volt or 6 volt. They make their own power. Did you hook 12 volt to the magneto somehow? Did you have the magneto off?



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hd6gtom

08-06-2017 20:16:27




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 Re: Won't Run in reply to nevertomany, 08-06-2017 18:43:10  
1st thing check your fireing order.



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