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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear

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Jlpb61

01-09-2017 15:37:38




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Also where would you start if there is no spark and no loud click from the magneto




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MikeJM

01-11-2017 07:34:21




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in ge in reply to Jlpb61, 01-09-2017 15:37:38  
I watched from about 50 yards away in total disbelief at a tractor pull as a fellow hand started his WC in gear and it proceeded to nearly run him over, he got it stopped, but I'll bet his heart rate was real high.



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Brian G. NY

01-10-2017 13:37:51




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in ge in reply to Jlpb61, 01-09-2017 15:37:38  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

That's what the manual says......it also says to not run engine with clutch locked out. I assume it puts undue wear on the "throwout" bearing.



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Bob Bancroft

01-10-2017 06:11:40




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-09-2017 15:37:38  
Read John's response and take it to heart. I will add that the impulse spring can break, the stud where the leg catches wears, the leg can fail, in other words- several things can happen with the impulse part itself. This part is critical for cranking, and running timing.

In short, the mag. needs to be pulled off and repaired.



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John T

01-10-2017 04:04:17




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-09-2017 15:37:38  
Its kind of hard to "hand" crank an engine over while in gear, especially in a higher gear, plus if it happened to start it could be dangerous

If a mags impulse spring wind and trip assembly isn't working (no loud sharp SNAP sound) when hand cranking ITS NOT GONNA FIRE. I have seen the spring wind n trip mechanisms get all gunked up or rusty and stop working and if so again shes not gonna fire at hand crank RPM. If it does wind n trip and SNAP but still no fire the first thing I look at is dirty or burned points which cleaning may cure.

It is possible to pull start a tractor with a faulty impulse mechanism so if she pull starts and runs okay but wont hand cranked look at the impulse mechanism

Hand crank start impulse timing is important and needs to be near TDC but if too fast she can kick back.

John T

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old

01-09-2017 15:46:47




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-09-2017 15:37:38  
Is it possible the hand crank one in gear?? Yes it is and if it happened to be in a forward gear it could/would run you over it is did start. As for have no spark very likely to be that the points need to be cleaned or replaced. Send me an e-mail and tell me which mag you have and I'll send you a manual for that that will make it easier for you to fix the problem



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Jlpb61

01-10-2017 07:06:25




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to old, 01-09-2017 15:46:47  
Thanks guys
I was told.this tractor.quite running and was put in the barn. I can crank it while in gear and it does not move (bad clutch? I guess). It has no spark and makes no clicking noise. Good news to me is I can tell No one else has taken the magneto off and messed with it. Lastly when I clean the carb how do I know it is working?
Any help is appreciated
Again thanks jb



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Dick L

01-10-2017 12:59:10




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-10-2017 07:06:25  
I would say you have yourself quite a puzzle when not knowing where to start. The clicking comes when the clock spring has been wound and the pawls strike the stop pin and lets the spring unwind spinning the rotor to make the only electricity you have to make spark. I have never found a way to inspect the inside without first removing the part in question. To see if the pawls are wore out or rusted fast you will have to remove the drive which will unwind the clock spring if it is not broken. You can tell if the pawls will move out to the pin reaching down beside the drive/spring cap with something. A spring pushes the pawls out and the spinning cap/rotor pulls them back away from the stop pin when running. The spring starts to wind at 30 before top dead center and the pawls trip the spring at top dead center (when cranking to start)only.

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Butch(OH)

01-10-2017 08:29:52




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-10-2017 07:06:25  
It is possible that the reason it was parked was it quit propelling itself? The early B's had a coupling at the end of the shaft that goes from the clutch to the trans and the pin would break and let the coupling slide forward and then it would not move. There is also a clutch lock down lever, smart operators would lock the clutch down when the tractor was going to sit a spell to prevent the disk from rusting to the flywheel.

The impulse coupling (the clicking noise you are not hearing) MUST work for the tractor to be safe to hand crank as it not only provides a much hotter spark it also retards the timing so as the spark does not occur before top dead center preventing crank kick back. FIX the impulse coupling before you proceed further. As suggested previously it could be just rusted, it could have a broken pin or the dog that catches the pin could be broken.

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BushogPapa

01-10-2017 09:02:10




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Butch(OH), 01-10-2017 08:29:52  
The Clutch "Lock-Down Lever" would be good to use to prevent a stuck Clutch, but the original reason for it was to be able to stop the Belt Pulley and let the engine run..at least that is what we used it for on the WD..

My Grandad had a little light piece of chain fastened to the end, so he could flip it over from the tractor seat...



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Dick L

01-10-2017 12:34:51




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to BushogPapa, 01-10-2017 09:02:10  
By using the clutch lock out lever you remove the drag of the transmission when hand crank starting.



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old

01-10-2017 08:18:47




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-10-2017 07:06:25  
You say it does not move when in gear but would you believe it takes say 10 full turns to move it an inch if in 1st gear and it is hard to spin it that much very fast. Now if you pulled all the plugs out and tried that it may in fact move for you but even then it will take a lot of turning to move much



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Jlpb61

01-10-2017 17:05:16




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to old, 01-10-2017 08:18:47  
WOW
You guys are great. I like a challenge. And you guys have given me a lot of information. This old tractor looks to solid not to run again. (No matter what the wife says).
Thanks again and I will keep you posted



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old

01-10-2017 18:18:35




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-10-2017 17:05:16  
Most of the tractor I have or had where dead where they where and most of them came back to life after I got them. Many ran the same day I picked them up and others took a couple days or weeks depending on how bad they where



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Jlpb61

01-11-2017 08:35:46




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to old, 01-10-2017 18:18:35  
I have pulled off the Magneto and the piece inside the tractor does not turn when I crank matter fact I'm not too sure the whole engine is turning when I turn the crank. However the pulleys and belts move when I crank.is it possible the piece that the crank goes in came loose on the shaft of the engine.
The guy that I got it from said they never cranked it they always just pulled in to start
Should I repost this? I guess this shows how new I am to this hobby

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Dick L

01-11-2017 09:47:41




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-11-2017 08:35:46  
Pull the valve cover off and see if the valves are working. You will need to remove the governor cover at the very least. You will be able to look in and see what gears are moving.



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Dick L

01-11-2017 10:01:39




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Dick L, 01-11-2017 09:47:41  
This shows how it works under the timing gear cover/engine front and what parts are involved.

third party image



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old

01-11-2017 09:15:13




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-11-2017 08:35:46  
The key way on the crank shaft could be bad so all your doing it turning the pulley. Is it only hand crank or does it also have a starter?? If only hand crank you might try jacking up one rear tire and then put it in high gear and try spinning the tire



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Jlpb61

01-11-2017 11:36:01




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to old, 01-11-2017 09:15:13  
It is hand crank only. You have given me ideas on what to do next
Thanks all



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old

01-11-2017 12:57:14




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 Re: Is it possible to hand crank an A.C. B when it is in gear in reply to Jlpb61, 01-11-2017 11:36:01  
Bad thing is to fix that you have to pull the front end off. By the way not good to try and see if the engine is locked up by pulling it because if it is locked up you can in fact break rods and other parts



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