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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC

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Dustyah

10-03-2016 12:55:19




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I have a wd 45' a DC not finished, neighbor has a Jd 60, would my 45 keep up with em, I have two sets of weights and calcium in 13.6 28, the Jd has single weights and calcium on 13.6 38' the case has dual sets of weights and 13.6 38, that's puts the case, a 1953 foot clutch DC, near 7000 lbs, and about 48 hp, I dunno the specs on the 60 Jd, but would my wd 45 plow 3 bottoms with them and 10 ft disc? Neighbor talks down my case and wd 45, lol need some reassurance

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DrAllis

10-11-2016 05:29:39




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
The "WD" tractor came out in 1948. I've never run a Ford, but the Allis system allowed you to increase/decrease the pressure applied to the draft arms on-the-go. Not sure the Ford was adjustable that way. The Allis system also sensed the load directly from the pull point. The Ford was sensed by backpressure thru the top link.



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oldtanker

10-11-2016 03:37:27




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

OK, thank you. And you did answer what was going to be another question if it did indeed work as a draft control.

First one? The reason I ask is the Ford 8N had draft control in 1948.

Rick



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DrAllis

10-10-2016 07:14:03




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
Yes, the "Traction Booster" feature was the first hydraulic system ever designed to gently lift on the mounted implement to transfer it's weight to the tractor automatically. How well it worked depending on proper linkage adjustments and an Operator who understood how to set it. If you didn't believe it worked, all you had to do was shut it off for a while and the difference was sometimes amazing.

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oldtanker

10-07-2016 13:23:24




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
OK, I don't know so I have to ask. Looking at an AC with "traction boost" there isn't any gear reduction in there that I know of and there isn't a weight transfer system, so is it another name for draft control?
Rick



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DrAllis

10-07-2016 06:08:42




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
On the same subject, I talked to a retired Farmer many years ago, who had both an IH "M" and a WD-45. He pulled 3 bottom 14 inch plows with both tractors. The "M", naturally, had a pull-type plow. The WD-45 had the A-C mounted plow. He said the WD-45 would plow every bit as many acres per day as the "M", and some days a little more if it was tough going (because of Traction Booster), and ALWAYS used less fuel in the course of a days plowing. We pulled 3-16's with our WD-45 gas, but most pulled 3-14's. Only a D-17 would handle 4-14's in our area, never a WD-45.

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D beatty

10-07-2016 07:14:48




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to DrAllis, 10-07-2016 06:08:42  
You put a pull type plow behind a WD-45 and it won't out plow a good M. What I didn't like is the traction booster would raise the plow a little to get through tough spots in field. Where as the pull type you had to lug it through the tough spots.



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Brutus49dc

10-04-2016 20:33:30




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
A 400 Case would be of closer vintage to a 45 and I would have no fear of running a 400 against any wd45. I have a friend that has a 45 with power craters and a 170 spring which I have plowed against with my 36 CC Case. He can run with me until the going gets tough. Then he is lifting the plow so he can keep up while the Case keeps pulling it at the same depth. At a plow day we had he was able to pull his 3 bottom pretty well with traction booster as we had a 1/2 inch of rain the night before. If you were to pull a loaded wd45,60,dc or 400 the same amount of hours plowing the transmission and final drives would fail long before the Case or jd.

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BushogPapa

10-06-2016 18:48:55




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Brutus49dc, 10-04-2016 20:33:30  

I don't think so....!!!!!



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perplexed

10-04-2016 18:37:58




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
I never plowed with a WD45 so may not know what I'm talking about. I suspect the reason the wd45 did so well was the traction booster system. It tended to lift the plow in harder plowing conditions while pull plows stayed at a constant depth plus the plow was closer to the tractor and was carried on the rear axle of the tractor.



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BushogPapa

10-06-2016 18:52:01




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to perplexed, 10-04-2016 18:37:58  

BULL CRAP....the Traction Booster ( properly set) will NOT raise the plow or reduce the plowing depth one iota...

Steered mine ( 4x14") with the Brakes many hours and never changed the plowing depth...you just don't know what you are saying is not correct..



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FastFarmall

10-04-2016 20:16:48




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to perplexed, 10-04-2016 18:37:58  
Well that 45 i was talking about had 16.9 x28 Firestone tires on it, also but that tractor had 54 horse power to, if they put LP pistons it by mistake or what i cant say, but that thing had so much snap you crack the throotle in 3rd it would almost lift the front end off the ground. Since i have gotten older and go to the old time plowing bees, i admit if the ground is hard the first plow out of the ground is a Allis, but these guys come with the dullest shares possible too.

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FastFarmall

10-03-2016 22:03:05




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
A good WD-45 is hard to beat on a Allis plow. The Oliver dealer years ago wanted to demonstrate a 880 Oliver, gas, and a 4 Bootom pull type plow, My neighbor to the north had a gutty 45 and he went got that, and when plowing with his 4 bootom mounted kept bumping the tail wheel on the Oliver plow,the dealer got so mad he wouldn't even look back any more, got to the end and lifter it up, and went home. I was not there, but it happen on the farm i now own, heard that from 3-4 different neighbors, so must be true.

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D beatty

10-03-2016 22:57:56




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to FastFarmall, 10-03-2016 22:03:05  
Put a set of Oliver mowboards and shears on an Allis Chalmers plow. The guy that farmed my dads place the first several years before dad started farming it was an 100% Allis Chalmers man. The farm is hilly with clay, sandy loam,and black ground. The guy was pulling 3-16's with a WD45 and was not happy with the way it handled. Dealer down the road told him to try a set of Oliver bottoms and if he didn't like them they would put the Chalmers bottoms back on. He said the Oliver bottoms pulled easier and did a better job of rolling sod and turning trash.

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mijohn

10-03-2016 19:51:49




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
Back in 1963 my dad was looking for another tractor to go along with our A john deere. We also had a little M that we had as a second tractor that we mowed hay with. We were looking at a 60 john deere when he saw a massy 65. They were very popular in the area at the time and it had a few more horses. We had a lot of red clay knobs and the late A's had trouble with pulling three bottoms over those knobs. The next spring I ask dad to put in a set of M&W sleeves an pistons. They only gave us five more horse but that was a total of 10 horse more then the 60. I pulled the three fourteens in forth gear anywhere I wanted to go. As far as the Allis's go we had four neighbors that had WD's and WD-45's but for whatever reason only two moved up to D-17'S. I think the WD-45's sold a little cheaper then the john deere 60's. The neighbor that had the late A looked at a WD'45 but chose a john deere 50 instead and pulled a two bottom plow with it. He used the A to fit ground with, He said the A used more fuel then the 50 did pulling the two bottom plow. He was a little on the tight side with money as was I think the older generation usually was.

m7w

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FastFarmall

10-04-2016 09:16:14




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to mijohn, 10-03-2016 19:51:49  
I got a friend who has got a 60 JD with a power block in it, it says power block , on the engine block,he says its got the same power on the dyno as his brothers 70, I think he said 54.



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BushogPapa

10-03-2016 19:38:51




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
We used Duals (14.9x28") on our WD-45 when discing ( IH #37 10 1/2') and always ran in 3rd..

Always pulled 4x14" Semi-Mounted in 2nd..I doubt a Stock JD 60 would even MOVE 4 bottoms..!!

A friend came up with his nice-looking JD 70 and 3-bottom plow with NO Cover-boards, Jointers or anything and every 2 rounds in that 1/2 mile long field, I would Pass him...

My Furrow slices were seamless from one end of the field to the other..his were no where near as nice to work as mine..

I Have a nice set of Duals for a WD-45 with an old set of worn 13.6x28" on them.."Snap-On"..cam-Lock type..easy to put on or take off..if you are interested.. I got so I liked to use one on the left side of each tractor when plowing..

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Traditional Farmer

10-03-2016 18:07:26




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
If I have to drive it all day give me the WD45 every time.My father bought a 60 once I hated the thing, thought I'd died and gone to Heaven when he traded for an Oliver 77.



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Bill VA

10-04-2016 20:44:58




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Traditional Farmer, 10-03-2016 18:07:26  
I read book Oliver Tractors by T. Herbert Morrell. They did a nice job with those vintage Oliver tractors, i.e. model 77, etc.

Smooth running 6 cylinder engine, independent PTO, very good ergonomics IMHO. Wouldn't mind having a Super 77 with factory 3 pt hitch. Just never see them come up for sale around here. Lots of WD and WD45 tractors though.



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FastFarmall

10-05-2016 17:55:33




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Bill VA, 10-04-2016 20:44:58  
Say Bill, do u subscribe to the Oliver Heritage magazine, it would be well worth it if you are interested in Oliver tractors, it's owned an written by Sherry, her dad was a dealer.



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Traditional Farmer

10-04-2016 22:55:57




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Bill VA, 10-04-2016 20:44:58  
You need to look around Harrisonburg to find Olivers,Whitsel the Oliver dealer sold a whole lot of them just picked up a 1600 Utility back in August at an auction in Dayton next door the AGCO dealer used to be Web Enterprises.



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Moonlite37

10-03-2016 17:48:27




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
You can outwork either one with the AC, BUT look out they will beat you at other jobs!



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wolfman

10-03-2016 17:48:11




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
A good WD-45 with 14.9-28s filled and two sets of weights will out plow the others. The JD 60 or the DC would be better in a dead-weight pulling contest. That snap-coupler hitch hooked way up under the belly makes the 45 a plowing fool. It'll handle 3-14s in it's 2nd gear which is about 4.2 mph and never even growl. On a ten-foot disc, you'd better add another set of weights or get the (although slower) 60 or DC. 13.6-38s walk over plowed ground better than 14'9-28s. I can't see a 45 with 13.6s.

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greenenvy

10-03-2016 16:12:46




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
I'll take a JD 60, a Farmall Super M, or a Oliver Super 88 just to get a decent ops platform.



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tractorguy2

10-03-2016 15:13:52




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
The John Deere 60 was not much of a tractor. A good WD45 would have no problem against a 60. The DC had real good lugging power but were slow.

Dad had a WD45, a JD model A, and a Farmall M with M&W piston. There was no contest. The 45 ran away from both the JD and the Farmall. Dad sold the M to a local farmer shortly after getting the 45. The A went to Mexico. We still have the 45.



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D beatty

10-03-2016 18:19:37




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to tractorguy2, 10-03-2016 15:13:52  
You didn't have the M set up right. I had an M that had the 264 block with 281 fire craters in it with 14.9-38's loaded and two sets of rear wheel weights and would walk away (on drawbar) from any of 4 WD45'S we had in neighbor hood.



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tractorguy2

10-03-2016 19:38:17




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to D beatty, 10-03-2016 18:19:37  
Our M had brand new 12-38's with weights when we bought it.I don't remember it ever slipping. The WD45 back then had 14.9x28's on the rear and 7.50's up front. Dad always said you needed a step ladder to get on it!

As far as a WD45 vs a JD60. I think it would make a difference if we are talking about an early model 60 or late. The early 60's were just a model A with different tin.



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DrAllis

10-03-2016 14:57:24




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
Any well tuned WD-45 with 14.9 x 28 rear tires full of fluid and an AC 3-bottom mounted plow with a working Traction Booster should out plow either of those other two tractors. Rear tires full of fluid was STANDARD equipment on a WD-45. There was a reason for that. The mounted plow was also made for the tractor/Traction Booster system. Also 13.6 x 28 Goodyear tires wouldn't be near as good as 14.9 x 28 Firestones.

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D beatty

10-03-2016 16:38:02




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to DrAllis, 10-03-2016 14:57:24  
The 45 is great if you use the Allis Chalmer equipment but put it against a JD 60 or IH M with 38" wheels and the M and 60 walk all over the 45 with 28". The 38" tires have 3 bars on the ground all the time and the 28" tire only has two bars on the ground.



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tractorguy2

10-03-2016 17:19:22




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to D beatty, 10-03-2016 16:38:02  
We didn't have any AC equipment. Used the same John Deere disk on all three tractors. Our WD45 ran away from our JD and our Farmall. Dad also had a IHC WD9. The WD45 did do so well against the old 9.



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jocco

10-03-2016 14:39:26




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
Some variables but I would bet on the 60. The 45 is strong on the engine but never got it to the ground. The case is a toss up. All three are good tractors and have there good and bad points. Some 60's had a different tranny and that could help a lot. One example years ago uncle stuck a 45 on a disc and an Allis c trying to get it out Alec pulled out the c and the wd backed in to the disc harrow and walked it out!!! This was with a Deere A. THINGS WERE QUIET IN ALLIS LAND FOR A BIT.

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BushogPapa

10-06-2016 19:03:06




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to jocco, 10-03-2016 14:39:26  
Around here ( Central Ohio), no JD "A" or JD 60 would pull more than 3-14".

IF they had the Power Block, they would pull 3-14" here..while our AC WD-45's pulled 4x14 from the Factory...

Our 2 WD-45's could ( and did) plow 50 acres in one day...



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D beatty

10-03-2016 16:19:11




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to jocco, 10-03-2016 14:39:26  
My dad got our M stuck putting manure on neighbors garden in spring. Neighbor tried to pull him out with his WD45 and couldn't move the stuck tractor. Dad had neighbor take him home and he brought the John Deere A to neighbors. Dad had neighbor drive JD A and told him to use half throttle and first gear and it walked the stuck tractor and manure with ease. The neighbor a year later bought a John Deere G and got rid of the 45.

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BushogPapa

10-06-2016 19:05:39




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to D beatty, 10-03-2016 16:19:11  
Neighbor had his Dozer stuck, came over and asked if I would try to pull him out...I had the Duals on one WD-45 and went there with it...NEVER slipped a tire and pulled him clear..



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D beatty

10-06-2016 22:05:53




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to BushogPapa, 10-06-2016 19:05:39  
Of the 5 WD 45's we had around hear 2 pulled 3-16's and the rest had 2-16's all mounted snap coupler plows. The ones pulling 3-16's had all they could handle with hilly and a lot of clay streaks in fields. Farmers around here didn't like the 14" plows because they liked the way the 16's turned trash better. I have a very nice WD 45 and had an IH M and on the drawbar the 45 can't come close to pulling what the M will. The M has an advantage of 14.9-38's compared to the 14.9-28's of the Allis and the M weighs about 7,000 lbs. and the 45 weighs about 5,000. Not saying a Chalmers is a bad tractor its just not in the same class as an M.

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BushogPapa

10-09-2016 16:32:29




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to D beatty, 10-06-2016 22:05:53  
Is "Clay" all you had to deal with..?

We have that all over the place here...it is the Black Wax, or even WORSE, Yellow Wax..add to that long-rooted Alfalfa and you have something to handle..

A JD "A" pulls 2x14" here 2 16", maybe but it would be SLOW..

Now, most of our ground was pretty much level, but we NEVER pulled less than 4x14" Snap-Coupler plows and definitely in 2nd gear..

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D beatty

10-09-2016 20:32:27




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to BushogPapa, 10-09-2016 16:32:29  
We farmed with all three of tractors (WD45,JD A,and Farmall M). We used 2-16's on all three and the Deere and Farmall pulled pull type plows and Chalmers was a snap coupler. The Deere had a power block and Farmall had a 264 block with 281 fire crater kit in it and the 45 had a stock engine and never overhauled. Our clay was a gray color but 10 miles north of us it was a yellow clay and if you didn't get in the field at the right time it got hard as a rock.

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BushogPapa

10-10-2016 06:52:34




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to D beatty, 10-09-2016 20:32:27  
Yes, that does sound like what we have called Yelloe Wax..

When damp it sticks to the moldboards like taffy..!



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D beatty

10-09-2016 20:30:00




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to BushogPapa, 10-09-2016 16:32:29  
We farmed with all three of tractors (WD45,JD A,and Farmall M). We used 2-16's on all three and the Deere and Farmall pulled pull type plows and Chalmers was a snap coupler. The Deere had a power block and Farmall had a 264 block with 281 fire crater kit in it and the 45 had a stock engine and never overhauled. Our clay was a gray color but 10 miles norht of us it was a yellow clay and if you didn't get in the field at the right time it got hard as a rock.

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old

10-03-2016 13:20:59




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 Re: Wd45 vs Jd 60 vs case DC in reply to Dustyah, 10-03-2016 12:55:19  
Well the JD is 40HP as per Neb test. The WD45 is 43HP and the DC is 37HP. One advantage the JD would have over the other 2 is the bigger rear tires which seem to do better as for pulling the then 28 inch the WD45 has. Now side by side it could well be as simple as which one is in better shape engine wise



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