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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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AC disk question

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JD Seller

12-14-2014 09:50:16




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I have seen several of these disk over the years. They have been as wide as 12 feet. They have the snap coupler type hitch and lift chains but they also have a rock shaft with wheels. How did these work??? If you lifted it with the wheels then you could not have turned very short. Did the tractor just lift the entire disk and the wheels just where for depth control???? I don't see a D-19 lifting a 12 foot disk.

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Butch(OH)

12-15-2014 07:23:39




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 09:50:16  
ALso, your other question about the hitch. The 190 was also offered with the SC hitch for a couple years. They are not what I call rare but are not seen often. For some reason I see them mostly on the gasoline models, could be a regional thing.



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Butch(OH)

12-15-2014 07:18:16




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 09:50:16  
I worked many acres with a 210 (10') like that behind a D-15. You could turn shorter if the wheels were set out a bit but mostly you just had to learn to deal with the fact you could not turn short. People dealt with it different ways but we worked the field in lands about 30' wide mostly using the headland and dead furrows as guides. You would work the same side of the new land and disked ground so you always had 30' to turn if you get my drift? When done you would step over and start over again. More often we worked the field twice before planting so we would disk up a (about)30' wide spot to start out then each round you had half a round of first time over and coming back you worked in the disked ground second time over. We also had a SMTA Farmall and pulled same disk with a clevis when the D-15 was tied up. The Farmall needed duals and weight to pull the disk like the little D-15 would pull it on single 26" tires. Later A-C offered the other hinged hitch pictured elsewhere here that allowed for short turns. You could also get the weight transfer hitch for a 3 point and made a real tractor out of a 190XT without adding duals or ballast. The weight transfer hitch was a great product by A-C that never caught on. Guess it was too easy to throw on weights and duals and fill the fuel tank more often than to learn how to use it?

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JMS/.MN

12-15-2014 08:03:01




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-15-2014 07:18:16  
Growing up I cultivated with the WC in a similar pattern....skipping two rows at a time, but after 3 passes, going back to fill in the first two uncultivated ones...much easier for a 14 yo runt to turn the wheels.



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Eldon (WA)

12-15-2014 09:53:17




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JMS/.MN, 12-15-2014 08:03:01  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I did that as a kid running the 2 row go-devil on the WD45D. No way that tractor with a wide front would turn that short. Also cultivated with the B JD and would skip the whole field then fill in on the way back....ended up where you started. Now anything less than 8' wide I do the circle thing...not quite as efficient, but better than cutting ruts with the front tires and wearing out the brakes.....

With the 12' disc and pivoting hitch dad expected you to turn on 24' headlands...if you had to make more than two rounds to clean up the headlands you got chewed out LOL!

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Butch(OH)

12-15-2014 09:21:25




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JMS/.MN, 12-15-2014 08:03:01  
The good ole days??? of no power steering. We cultivated the same way as you. When I was 10 we moved and the first year I was cultivating corn across the fence from a neighbor who was cultivating with a 2 row on his 630 Deere. He going back and forth locking a brake and spinning the heck out of the wheel each turn but after watching me for two rounds he skipped two and then two more then started filling in just as you said and like I was doing. He stopped after a couple rounds and hopped the fence to introduce himself and said he has been farming for a bunch of years and never knew he was cultivating the hard way until he saw me, LOL. People would also cultivate two rows and skip two doing the entire field and then come back catching the two they skipped, seen it done both ways, either beats the dickens out of wearing yourself out spinning the steering wheel.

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JMS/.MN

12-15-2014 13:26:35




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-15-2014 09:21:25  
My brother was 9 years older, so he often did the skip 2 all the way across, then come back filling in. When I did that I imagined what it would be like with a 4 row......I came up with a different system cuz I liked the field to be "almost done", up to where I was.



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BushogPapa

12-14-2014 15:22:04




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 09:50:16  
You were better off to use a Drawbar, so you could really turn short (after raising the Disc). We always used Duals on our WD-45 while working ground (plenty of traction!)..

Ron.



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Eldon (WA)

12-14-2014 15:40:58




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to BushogPapa, 12-14-2014 15:22:04  
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We had a Model 212 (12') with the hitch shown in my first picture that we pulled with a Wd45D. It turned as short as you could make that tractor turn and never hit the disc. We worked heavy clay soil in the hills of SD and you knew it if you didn't have the traction booster lever set. The tractor also had a Du-Al loader on it and loaded 16.9 x 28 rears. We also had a plain WD45D with 14.9 rubber but no transport valve. I tried using it once and it just lifted the disc out of the ground when it would start to spin. Later on we bought a JD 720 Diesel and took the hitch off and replaced it with a piece of pipe and a clevis. That tractor was heavy enough to handle it without the traction booster, but dad always said it packed the ground a lot more....

I have a 218 that I use. Someone changed the hitch on it at some point to a plain drawbar. The wings were also robbed of parts, so it is only around 13' or so wide now. I only gave $150 for it, it has worked well for me the last 6 years. As for the ballpack bearings, someone has come up with the part numbers of other bearings that can be used to replace them.

[URL=http://s29.photobucket.com/user/ejons/media/Implements/010-1.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

[URL=http://s29.photobucket.com/user/ejons/media/Implements/007-3.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

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maxwell99

12-14-2014 14:26:55




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 09:50:16  
I had a D14 with an 7 ft pickup disc.
Lever on the right side would lift the disc,

If the rear wheels started to spin, you just push up on that traction booster lever, left side lever I think, it's been a while, the needle on the traction booster gauge would kick over and the lift arms would come up placing extra weight on the rear wheels.

It worked fine on the old D 14 with pick up equipment.

However, my friend had a D17 with an AC trailer disc, it was much harder for him to turn, but the disc worked well.

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JMS/.MN

12-14-2014 12:13:12




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 09:50:16  
I had one of those 12 footers behind a D17 when I started farming in "72. It did not turn well. I also changed it to a pin hitch. One reason for current value being scrap price is the problem "old tanker" ran into last Spring......unavailability of shaft bearings. Cast bearing carrier is a Mickey Mouse setup as well.



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Eldon (WA)

12-14-2014 10:01:14




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 09:50:16  
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The hitch was used to transfer weight to the tractor. When pulling through a tough spot with plow or disc, the hitch point on the tractor (spring loaded) would force hydraulic oil into the lift arm cylinders thus transferring weight to the tractor. This was called the traction booster system. With a disc like this, you needed a transport valve on the tractor so that the hydraulic oil didn't take the easier path to the cylinder on the disc. The position of the hydraulic lift lever (or a separate lever on later series tractors) set the sensitivity. With this system, a light weight tractor could out-plow the heavier JD and IH tractors because once it was set everything worked automatically.

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JD Seller

12-14-2014 10:12:15




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to Eldon (WA), 12-14-2014 10:01:14  
Eldon I know how the weight transfer/traction boost, system works on an AC snap coupler hitch. My question is how would you turn at the ends??? This disk in the picture is smaller than some of the ones I have seen. They where clear up to 12 foot or more. Even a D-19 would be hard pressed to lift one. The disk really sticks out very far from the lift point.

I think a D-19 was the largest AC with snap coupler hitch design???

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Traditional Farmer

12-14-2014 12:07:40




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 10:12:15  
They don't lift the disk just get some weight off it
transferred to the back of the tractor.Massey Ferguson had a similar set up to pull wagons that worked off the 3pt arms



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Eldon (WA)

12-14-2014 10:27:27




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 10:12:15  
You might have seen similar models which had a pivot point right behind where the lift arms are. These were a lot handier for turning and the style that I grew up with. They had a steel frame instead of chains.

[URL=http://s29.photobucket.com/user/ejons/media/Implements/dischitch.jpg.html]third party image[/URL

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Eldon (WA)

12-14-2014 10:22:52




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to JD Seller, 12-14-2014 10:12:15  
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The cylinder on the disc picks it up just like a regular trailer type disc for turns and transport. The hitch just allows for the traction booster to work in the field. If it pulled from a regular drawbar, the lift arms would just pull up on the drawbar...which is fixed. With the pivot point in the snap coupler, you can imagine the leverage (and weight transfer) possible with the tractor trying to pick up the disc while discing. This is a good thing :D

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JD Seller

12-14-2014 11:51:27




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 Re: AC disk question in reply to Eldon (WA), 12-14-2014 10:22:52  
The ones I have seen here in Iowa and WI had a ridged hitch. I have never seen one with the pivot.

I have never seen one used with a snap coupler hitch like they where supposed to be used. Most guys found a clevis that would fit through the snap coupler eye and used them like a regular drawbar disk.

I just saw one sell this last week at a sale. It was every bit of 12 foot wide. It had a ridged hitch, without a factory clevis. It only brought $250. I don't think it went for scrap.

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