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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Allis Forty Five grader hydraulics

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Ian Beale

05-14-2012 14:32:30




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Calling Greygoat

I saw your list of hydraulic credentials on an “Orphans/Earthmaster hydraulic pump” thread, and hope you might have some information on the pumps on the Allis “Forty Five” grader that we've revived.

The hydraulic pump(s?) are leaking back to the PTO case. I haven't pulled anything yet as it is good enough for ranch use at the moment.

The grader was made by Allis's Australian plant, so the serial # goes 524/***. Which means comparing what we have to what is in US parts and service manuals to work out what we've got.

The hydraulic pumps (one for steering, one for the “farmerised” hydraulic wheel lean and moulboard roll, which I'm presuming is the one used for the optional hydraulic moulboard shift) are different from those in US. They're both of the same pattern and size, the steering pump has narrower gears and a relief valve. The parts diagrams aren't much use for detail as they look almost hand drawn.

The bigger pump is Hydreco 1512A12B13C7, and was made in Australia.

I've had no luck here on seals – the best comment was “When you could get them they were expensive and now they're RARS (Rare as rockinghorse - - ).

Any information you might have would be appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation.

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Ian Beale

05-21-2012 19:34:08




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 Re: Allis Forty Five grader hydraulics in reply to Ian Beale, 05-14-2012 14:32:30  
Greygoat,

Thanks very much for the reply. And no worries about speed of reply - things happen! I've just got back from a trip, so am doing a quick reply and then I have to read your reply in more detail.

There is a return filter but I've no idea of the standard of maintenance during the grader's life.

Don't worry about copying and posting the manual -I doubt I'm going to get pieces to rebuild the pumps other than maybe the seal O-rings. Hydreco here is long dead (?1970?) and that source says I've probably got a better chance of finding rocking horse output. In that era I'd doubt they would be metric.

The leak(s?) aren't big and I've had a suggestion of the O-rings as a cause of the leaks. So would it be possible to scan and email a diagram of the seal section showing O-rings and seal parts so I have an idea of what is in there before I try on the pumps themselves? This is not at all clear from the Allis manual, and I'd hate to wreck things through ignorance.

I may have a lead on pumps from a wreck here. Or (eventually) may have to do a replumb with a different pump which sounds do-able.

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greygoat

05-18-2012 06:45:23




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 Re: Allis Forty Five grader hydraulics in reply to Ian Beale, 05-14-2012 14:32:30  
The Hydreco pump was a very high quality cast
Iron pump with roller bearings. The 1500 series was a bidirectional pump with check valves. A good
pump will have a passage drilled from the nose
area to the suction side of the pump, some oil is allowed to get in to the shaft area, to lube
the shaft and bearings,(or bushings)excess oil
is sucked into the inlet area, so that it doesn't
build up a cause seal leakage.Bi directional pumps have steel ball bearing "Check valves" so
if a pump is reversed,(Thus the outlet & inlet
changed)high pressure won't get into the nose, as it push's the check valve closed--the valve on the other side is sucked open to circulate
oil.
Even a good ball or roller bearing pump,however
will, acording to hours, and oil clenleness,
develop wear. as the bearings or shaft wear,the
gears can move a few thousands, and eventually
start to undercut the case, or houseing. This
leads to bypass of oil and pressure loss. You
will also have metallic particles in the oil,
which is why you need a good full flow filter
in the return to tank line..and regular filter
maintentance..to catch those particles before
they recirculate and cause more abrasive wear.
A leaking front shaft seal can be caused by
normal wear and tear,(high hours)or dust/dirt
around the shaft area causing abrasive wear
around the shaft..which a new seal and speedi-sleeve can fix, BUT...its often an indication
of internal wear and oil is getting past the
gears and bearings faster that it can be sucked
back to the inlet.
Hydreco's guarantee is for 3 years or 3000 hours,
which gives you an indication of expected pump
life.I have here a "Shop and service manual"
for Hydreco 1500 series pumps. I will copy it for
no charge, and mail it..but expect to be repaid
for the envelope and postage..a couple of bucks,
on reciept..to the return address. It's 20 pages.
NOW: the seal part number is" HYDRECO#A907-X71,
it has a "Federal Stock number,FSN, of
5330012743096. there are a number of sources on
"Google" who "Might" have availibility of that
number. Will it fit? who knows? I have oil seal
books from : Chicago Rawhide-(C/R), Victor,TCM,
National,(National is now part of Timkin bearing)
Timkin, and Garlock. The Timkin book is as big as the old Sears-Robuck catalog. They all show
Hydreco A907--- parts numbers in their interchange..BUT theX71 suffex dosen't show!
The front seal is held in by a snap ring, and I'd
suggest that you just try to get it out, and measure Inside diameter,(Shaft size) outside
diameter,(case opening) and width or thickness,
and look for a replscement ,at a good industrial
supply house-- or e-mail me those sizes and i'll
look at my books and give you some suggestions.
Also...I see from the service manual, that Hydreco
has an Austrailia branch..maybe they assemble ,or made pumps there.. and,(Could it be
possible) your pump might be metric?
I also note that inside the pump there is a "Cartrige" that pulls out, that has internal
and external O-Rings, and a back up ring..you
might just have O-Ring wear.. eventually you'll
have to disassemble the pump and inspectt it for
case cutting/internal wear/ and pop that seal out
to measure it.

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Ian Beale

05-15-2012 02:31:39




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 Re: Allis Forty Five grader hydraulics in reply to Ian Beale, 05-14-2012 14:32:30  
Retired Farmer

Been there, done that, didn't get a T-shirt!

At least from my searches.



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Ian Beale

05-14-2012 14:54:28




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 Re: Allis Forty Five grader hydraulics in reply to Ian Beale, 05-14-2012 14:32:30  
Oops! Check before posting!

Pump nunber is 1512A13B12C7



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Retired Farmer

05-14-2012 14:53:02




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 Re: Allis Forty Five grader hydraulics in reply to Ian Beale, 05-14-2012 14:32:30  
Did you look under Hydreco pumps on the internet? I just looked and found several listings for them.



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