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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen

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Mark - IN.

04-22-2012 19:31:41




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This happened AFTER changing the oil and oil bath breather today, not before. Until today, never used oil or smoked.

I drained the oil last night, locked up the barn, called it a day. Today, new filter, new oil. Now here's the deal. For years, years, and years I have always used a brand, "SuperS non-detergent 40 SAE", and nothing but. Never once had a problem. Yesterday the parts store only had 4 or 5 quarts of what I used, so grabbed them. Then they had a brand I have never seen before, "CUI non-detergent 40 SAE", so I grabbed three quarts AFTER checking, double checking, triple checking was non-detergent 40 SAE. This morning, those were the first three quarts in, and although not as thick is STP, was incredibly thick. I wrote off as having sat out in the pickup bed last night and the temps getting down into the 30's. All three quarts, thicker than I have ever seen. Then got to the first quart of brand I always use, expected the same, but no way, poured right out as I would have expected the first three. Then next, and next, all same, poured normal. I was checking level with the dipstick, and when was between "full" and "add" marks, good enough. Then I did the oil bath. Sometimes I fill with the used that I take out, sometimes I fill with new 40 weight non-detergent. This time I found an unopened quart of "SuperS non-detergent 10 SAE" setting on the shelf that I must have bought by accident at some point, so since not good for anything else, I figured may as well use for the oil bath.

I buttoned it up, started it, let it run for about 10 mins with no problems, shut it down to go do some more important chores than mowing around the house. This evening after finishing the other chores, I figured use the B to mow the couple of acres around the house, and fired her up. JAMES BOND class smoke out of the stack, first time ever. I watched it a few, no odd noises, no knocking, nothing sounded odd mechanically, so I shut it down and checked the oil. Now the oil was a little above the full mark, but oddly enough didn't run down the dipstick as I held it, looking at it. Instead of forming a drop or even dripping, the new oil was just glommed onto the dipstick. I even shook it, not hard, but would have expected some warm oil to fly off, but nope. That could be a problem, that oil. Then I thought maybe should not have used 10 weight in the oil bath. Maybe too thin and getting sucked into the intake, so I took the oil bath off and fired it up. Same James Bond smoke screen out the stack, only getting worse, so I shut it down.

I had to leave town on business for the nest week, so locked up the barn and will take a look at her when I get back. Now I'm wondering, 10 weight too thin for oil bath? Bad new oil in the crankcase? Tomorrow I will call the parts store, have them order me a couple of filters and a case of the old reliable oil I've always used, and when I get back, try it all over again. Fire her up and see what happens. Maybe clean her out, and change it all again just to make sure.

I hate to think something broke. The timing after oil and bath. Anyone seen anything like this before?

Thanks.

Mark

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Kip-Utah

04-24-2012 20:05:49




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-22-2012 19:31:41  
Over full. BTDT. Kip



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Dick L

04-23-2012 06:35:36




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-22-2012 19:31:41  
Take the breather cup off and run it for a while.
Gotta have sucked some breather oil into the carburetor. Might have to wash out the carb behind the choke as well as the tube. It don't take a lot of oil to smoke for a long while. It can pull a mist off the bottom which will look like it has to be a stream as it comes out the exhaust.



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Mark - IN.

04-23-2012 15:00:57




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Dick L, 04-23-2012 06:35:36  
Thanks Dick. One of my thoughts was might have taken some oil into the intake, but the level in the breather looked the same. I will give that a try as well. But, I'm still also going to change the oil and the filter at least once again, and as everyone else suggests, try 30 weight. But I'm not so sure about trying detergent in that little B has never been rebuilt as far as I know, and after decades upon decades of non-detergent, the last thing I want to chance is breaking some 30 or 50 year old glop of something loose, and really hosing things up. If I were tearing it down and rebuilding or such, absolutely, but who knows how old some of the blood clots are inside of it now, and do I want to chance breaking one loose and send into the heart or brain and cause a fatality? That little B is a darn good tractor and I want to take good care of her without chancing killing her. Thanks again Dick.

Mark

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old

04-23-2012 15:36:28




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-23-2012 15:00:57  
The myth of going to a detergent oil and causing harm is just that other wise I am sure I would have run into problems decades ago since I have never used a non-detergent oil in any thing and have picked up many old tractor and had no clue as to what oil had been used in them and I have messed with hundreds of these old machine., One tractor I know for sure did not run detergent oil till we got it was my 1935 JD-B and it has been in the family since 1940 so it is the only one I have a clue as to what has or has not been done to it and by the way it has not been opened up ever and if it has been it would have been in the 50s

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ACEd

04-23-2012 05:23:13




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-22-2012 19:31:41  
What was Oil Pressure like - before and after the problem started? I would think the extra thick oil would be more likely to plug something up, but if you are smoking that bad sounds like opposite is case.

In either case, as you determined and as advised by others, drain the thick stuff out and try to clean system out as best you can and change oil filter before refilling with known good oil. I don't think i would run it any more with dubious oil if oil on dipstick looks that bad.

You may even want to try a good name brand SAE 30 detergent for this change and see if the problem clears up with plan on changing again in near term back to whatever you are used to using.

best, Ed

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Mark - IN.

04-23-2012 05:51:18




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to ACEd, 04-23-2012 05:23:13  
Pressure was constantly around 10 PSI. I know what you are saying about thicker oil stopping stuff up. I have no idea if Igot a bad batch, or if I shouldn't have used 10 weight for the oil bath. In the past have always either used oil taken from the ngine for the oil bath, or new 40 weight. I saw the quart of unopened 10 weight on the shelf, figured I bought it by accident, figured may as well get some use out of it...oil bath. When I get back will check the plugs hoping to see all four oiled up from the same cause, as opposed to one like rings let go.

Thanks.

Mark

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old

04-22-2012 20:42:46




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-22-2012 19:31:41  
First off why that thick of an oil unless you know it is burning oil. I use a 30W in most of my machines year round but I am not in an area where it is real cold for all that long. As for a non-detergent oil I never use them either and I know many of the tractor I have it is a you guess it what oil was used in them before I got them. So then almost sounds like you over filled the air cleaner or some such odd thing

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Mark - IN.

04-22-2012 21:04:44




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to old, 04-22-2012 20:42:46  
Old, I have been running 40 for years. I thought maybe I overfilled the breather, but popped it off, and the oil was right at the mark. And I even tried running it with no breather, and smoke even got worse. And again, the oil level had not changed in the breather. I don't know. I've been changing the oil in this tractor for years and never had a problem. There is something funny about that oil I put into it though. You would think that after running it a few minutes, the oil is going to thin out from heat. This stuff just gloms onto the dip stick. Chemical reaction? I don't know. Never puffed a smoke before today though.

Mark

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old

04-22-2012 21:17:14




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-22-2012 21:04:44  
You may have gotten some bad oil which can happen at times. Or you may have it over full?? Either way I would probably try draining that oil and then maybe pour in some ATF in the cylinders to make sure the rings are not sticking and of course change the oil. If I where you I would also switch to some thing a 30w detergent oil. I own one tractor that I know where it has been since 1940 and what was run in it but I still run an detergent oil in if even though it was run for years on a non-detergent oil and I know it has not been opened up since some time maybe in the 50s if even then

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Mark - IN.

04-23-2012 05:46:44




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to old, 04-22-2012 21:17:14  
Actually Old, its just sligtly over full now. As I was adding oil to refill it, I was constantly checking the level with the dipstck. What I think happened was that as I was that the real tick oil that I added first stayed on top of the cylinder head because of its thickness. Then I added what I usually use. I stopped adding when the level was midway between add and full on the dipstick, but is now slightly over full, which makes me think that thick stuff was setting on the head until it warmed up and slithered down. I have never seen oil like that. Gloms to the dipstick. If I didn't know any better would think it was STP mismarked.

Thanks.

Mark

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old

04-23-2012 08:07:32




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-23-2012 05:46:44  
Maybe you got some of that new oil made in China made to stick to any thing sort of like all the junk made in China and it is sticking around in all the stores LOL



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JMS/.MN

04-22-2012 20:35:07




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-22-2012 19:31:41  
I don"t understand why you would be using such a heavy oil in the first place.



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Mark - IN.

04-22-2012 20:56:36




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to JMS/.MN, 04-22-2012 20:35:07  
Have always used 40. When I first bought this B, went through the archives here and as I recall, 40 weight non-detergent and thats what I have always used since, never a problem ever. I went to the archives here before posting, but didn't find it. The stuff in the first three quarts, the off brand, said was 40 weight, but came out like molassys. I wrote it off as being cold, but the brand that I normally use didn't come out like that.

Something happened. Ran ok for about 10 mins until I shut it down, and then hours later when I fired it up... Something about that oil though, I think. I'll change it all out again and see what happens.

Mark

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chalmersbob(pa)

04-23-2012 19:53:41




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 Re: Allis B putting out James Bond class smoke screen in reply to Mark - IN., 04-22-2012 20:56:36  
you said that you put 5 quarts in it. The book calls for 4 quarts. you are probably overful. The air breather cup should have the same oil as the crankcase. 10 wt is a little thin. My book says to use 30 weight in the summer and 20 weight in the winter. 4 quarts with no mention of more when changing filter which should happen at each oil change. Bob



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