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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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thermastat

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mikeintn

02-22-2012 17:12:21




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I wanted to put a thermostat in the top rad. hose, of my 1936 WC, has anyone done this, didnt know if it would cause any trouble because it dosent have a by-pass hose, I was thinking most that has a thermostat has a by-pass, so is one needed or not? Thanks




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79fordblake

02-26-2012 21:05:55




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 Re: thermastat in reply to Dick L, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  

gtski said: (quoted from post at 05:06:34 02/27/12) Early JD A,B.G,D Farmall 12, 20, 30 all ran without thermostats
and many are still running fine without them. Seems that engine
damage would have wiped most of them out by now. What I'm
saying is a trailer queen will likely not be hurt wheter or not it
has one. And honestly I've had more problems with a stuck
thermostat (open or closed) than i ever had with the old timers
with no thermostat/.


Most of them tractors had shutters or curtains to keep them warm also.....do what your supposed to do and make the engine run at operating temperature.

I don't care if people believe it or not....anytime a engine is running cold more damage is happening than it would if the engine was at temperature. A engine is also slightly damaged every time it is shut off or started.

Maybe you think its ok to start a engine cold and start reving it up also?

Most of the time this sort of damage shows up over time...but sometimes it is noticed more quickly. Just depends how long you want your engine to last I guess.

I have 3 A John Deeres and with those big radiators they don't heat up by theirselves even when plowing. I close the shutters some to make them start building heat.
This post was edited by 79fordblake at 21:09:05 02/26/12.

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79fordblake

02-25-2012 19:45:08




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 Re: thermastat in reply to DiyDave, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Not all cooling systems with a water pump and thermostat have a by-pass. Some early WD's don't have a by-pass hose and they have a water pump and thermostat.

A unpressurized system is better known as thermosiphon.
Anytime a engine isn't at operating temperature the engine is damaged more than normal...you don't notice it...happens over time. Engines that don't run at the temperature they were designed to run wear out faster than ones that do.

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gtski

02-26-2012 19:06:34




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 Re: thermastat in reply to 79fordblake, 02-25-2012 19:45:08  
Early JD A,B.G,D Farmall 12, 20, 30 all ran without thermostats and many are still running fine without them. Seems that engine damage would have wiped most of them out by now. What I'm saying is a trailer queen will likely not be hurt wheter or not it has one. And honestly I've had more problems with a stuck thermostat (open or closed) than i ever had with the old timers with no thermostat/.



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Aaron SEIA

02-25-2012 17:43:30




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
Enlighten us, please.
AaronSEIA



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aaron ncia

02-25-2012 18:47:36




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 Re: thermastat in reply to Aaron SEIA, 02-25-2012 17:43:30  
many older tractors do not have a water pump. they are called a burp system. water is moved by heat transfer. this is why the radiator gurgles after its shut off. an engine with a water pump flows water all the time, needing a bypass. the bypass allows the water pump to move water through the block and cylinder head until the thermostat starts to open. when the thrermostat opens the bypass flow is reduced and the cooling process is started-flows to the radiator and cooled water is drawn in on the suction side of the water pump from the lower side of the radiator. in my opinion with a wc if you want to get it up to temp put her to work. if it does not have a temp guege use a hand held temp gun. i love old allis chalmers tractors and i have my own, workin on one right now. don't be afraid to run it cold.

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aaron ncia

02-25-2012 17:29:56




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
I'm not so sure that anyone here really knows how a cooling system works. Wether its an expansion flow or a pressurized system. They are different. Be careful.



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79fordblake

02-23-2012 17:28:50




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
Whether it is a parade queen or not whenever it is used it should be made to run at operating temperature. If not sludge can build up...it won't burn off condensation and plugs foul up more often.



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mikeintn

02-23-2012 17:08:50




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
Arron I did find one, the one Stainer listed for 8N has the same ID top hose [1 7/16 ]. I had already put it in the hose when I started thinking if it was a good ideal or not, havent started it yet just rebuilt engine, not sure if it came with a small hole in it or not, may have to take it back out to look. Thanks everyone for all the good help. Mike



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BushogPapa

02-23-2012 11:37:48




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
It is only necessary to have a very small hole frilled at the highest side of the thermostat, to allow air to pass to the radiator..about 1/16" is plenty..

Ron..



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Aaron SEIA

02-23-2012 04:57:12




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
If you can find one that will fit. The original in-hose t-stat did have a bypass hose come off of it. I've never understood the point of shutters. If the t-stat is closed no water should be circulating through the rad to be cooled. They obviously worked or they never would have put them on, but I just don't understand. The unstyled WC's used a canvas curtain that could be adjusted for airflow.

AaronSEIA

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gtski

02-23-2012 07:40:22




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 Re: thermastat in reply to Aaron SEIA, 02-23-2012 04:57:12  
Aaron the purpose of shutters or curtains was to be a poor mans thermostat. The 201 engines were low compression distillate burners that required a hot temperature to vaporize the fuel. Many of the engines of the time were thermo syphon (no water pump) but large radiators. With a water pump shutters or curtains were even more important to keep the temperature up. Thermostats for tractors that used them were often only 160*. A trailer/parade queen burning gasoline wont benefit a great deal from a thermostat IMHO.

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mikeintn

02-22-2012 19:34:57




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
I would have thought also that it had shutters, but I dont think it did, and they didnt have a temp. gauge either, and if it had shutters I dont see how you would have known how hot it was, long before my time,lol but I guess thats why they made changes latter.



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mikeintn

02-22-2012 18:53:50




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
I'm I right in thinking if a WD dont have a by-pass I should be able to just put a thermostat in the hose?



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mikeintn

02-22-2012 18:47:36




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
Let me say I am not 100% sure, but as far as I know they did not come with a thermostat or shutters, in 36 or eariler WC, I know mine dont have any and have looked at a few more and never seen one with any, didnt see anything in the parts manual. So I know without a thermostat it would never heat up, with it just being a trailer queen. It never came with a temp. gauge either but was going to try and put one on it. Thanks

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old

02-22-2012 18:55:06




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 18:47:36  
Almost all tractor I have seen that did not have a thermostat in them did have a shutter system on them so the person running the machine could control how warm the engine ran. I know the W Speed Patrol I have has a set of shutters on it and it is based on the WC tractor



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Aaron SEIA

02-22-2012 18:36:08




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
You'll need to get the water manifold from a WD or WD45. If you get the one for a 45, you'll also need the rear plate to cap the back water jacket hole. WD one is the same as a WC, but has a t-stat built into the rad end. From the parts book it looks like the styled WC's used the WD style manifold (engine SN 98779 and up). Tractors from serial number 29844 and down did not have a temp gauge.

AaronSEIA

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79fordblake

02-22-2012 17:50:00




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
Do you have a temp gauge? It is very important the engine runs at operating temp. You should have shutters or a curtain.

WD's have a thermostat and no by-pass hose.



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gtski

02-22-2012 17:44:51




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 Re: thermastat in reply to mikeintn, 02-22-2012 17:12:21  
Dont have a wc that old but most of the tractors that generation were duel fuel and used some type shutters or curtains over the radiator to control the temperature. Why do you think a thermostat is needed?



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