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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

W201 crankshaft shims

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Albert Goerzen

01-02-2012 23:16:27




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I am struggling with shimming the crank and rods on a WF, 201 gas. The manual calls for 4 shims in each location initially. How thick were the shims originally? I have some of the shims that wnere in the engine but i got this engine in a box, dissassembled. The shims were all 0.003". The shims from AGCO were 0.009" and only call for 1 shim in each location. The book calls for 0.0015" crush on the bearing shells, which is impossible with .009" shims. On the rods, 1 shim gives about 0.004 crush, is this okay? The next problem is there is nothing to align the caps and rods, the bolts are not a snug fit. When i tighten them to the crank, they may end up tight on the sides even if the oil clearance top and bottom is good. The mains seem the same, when i get the oil clearance down to 0.002" (Checked with plastigage) and tighten the main caps, the crank is tight and wont turn. Im not having a great day. Any one ever done one of these?

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ASEguy

01-04-2012 04:17:03




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to Albert Goerzen, 01-02-2012 23:16:27  
Since the crank is out, I would put the main caps on without bearings and torque them to spec. This needs to be done with the block on a table. Put a straightedge in the saddle and check it for warpage. Maximum is .0015. If that is good, are you certain the main caps are in the right location and facing in the right direction? If you are certain then have the crank checked for warpage. How did the old bearings look? Hope this helps. Gerard

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steve(ill)

01-03-2012 18:50:26




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to Albert Goerzen, 01-02-2012 23:16:27  
It would be easier to use several smaller shims, but you can use the .009 with a few small shims as needed. First i would put the main caps on witht eh .009 shim and just snug the bolts. Measure the bore and compare to the crank to see what the difference is. You need the bore to be .002 bigger (oil gap) as you said. It sounds like you need to add a few thousands shim to get the clearance. Are you sure the .009 shim is one piece or is it laminated ? AFter you get the shims needed, you need to see that the bearing sticks up .0015 above the shim to get your crush. Dont get the edge of the shim under the bearing, just the cap. Install the caps with the measured shims and snug one center cap. Rotate the crank by hand and see that it is free. Snug a second cap , rotate again, snug anothe cap, rotate again. Torque a center cap and see that you can still rotate, etc. Do this untill you are tight with the bolts. If you tighten a cap and the crank is tight, add a .002 shim and do it again. I sometimes use plasigauge, but the final test is if the crank will rotate. Some old motor blocks will warp and that can put the crank in a small bind. Its not in the book, but an extra small shim will normally fix that.

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Albert Goerzen

01-03-2012 19:37:54




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to steve(ill), 01-03-2012 18:50:26  
Its the front main, with the thrust bearing that is tight. The crank turns easily with the center and rear main tight with .002" clearance, (as measured with plastigage.) So i started the front main by measuring the thickness of the shell bearing, it is 0.005" thicker than the one it replaced, and the crank is ground 0.010". Should be good. I installed the shell bearings and tightened the cap down finger tight. I measured the gap between the cap and block and got about 0.024". I put in a 9 and 4-3's on each side for a total of 0.021.(should be .003 crush) I tightened it down and measured the bore-2.435". My crank journal measures 2.4265. I filed off .004 off of both ends of one shell, removed one .003 shim from each side and now i have .002 crush, and a bore of 2.432. I laid the crank in and plastigaged the clearance, and got about .005. Cool- my measurements are close. End float is .005" I filed off .003 of both ends of the other shell and removed another .003 shim from both sides. Plastigage now says .002 clearance-perfect. I lifted the crank out and cleaned off the plastigage, poured some oil in the bearing and clamped it back down. The crank is tight, I cant turn it with my bare hands. *&%$. I quickly put one .003 shim back in one side of the cap- still tight, another on the other side, still tight, checked the clearance and it measures .005" *&%#@@. I measured the bore sideways, near the ends of the bearing shell and got 2.429" it should be lots. I cant figure out where the interference is.

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steve(ill)

01-04-2012 19:04:36




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to Albert Goerzen, 01-03-2012 19:37:54  
If the measurements are correct then the only way to be tight is the bores are out of alignment a few thousandths or the crank is slightly bent. I think i would roll the crank with the back two mains tight, front cap off. If it rolls o.k., then the crank is not bent and the crank is not pushing down into the front bearing. I would try to use a feeler gauge or light to see if you can see under the crank to bearing fit and see if the crank is setting a couple thousands high ( bore of bearing too low - -toward piston). I would put on the cap and tighen slowly and check for rolling. If it starts to get tight, add .002 and do again, then agin, etc. Once it rolls o.k. , pull crank and measure the journal, then bolt cap on block and measure the bore... if you have several thousands diffrence, then the bore must have dropped... This assumes the thrust bearing is not dragging the sides of the crank- check for burrs on it and not touching on the radius edge.

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BushogPapa

01-03-2012 18:36:37




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to Albert Goerzen, 01-02-2012 23:16:27  
Well, you are not going to get by with just the .009" shims.. You will need some thinner shims to set the clearance.. I prefer .0015" to .0025" for the WD/WD-45.. Some large JD 2-cylinder Mains need .005"..

A GOOD man, building an engine with adjustable shims can tell the clearances by just taping the rods, one at a time with a small hammer.. Man up the road (years ago) taught me that.. You need to KNOW how the rod should move, when taped..

Ron..

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mlpankey

01-03-2012 18:22:09




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to Albert Goerzen, 01-02-2012 23:16:27  
its alot easier to carry it to a machine shop and have everything resized to not need shims. Core shift is a witch.



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DiyDave

01-03-2012 04:09:22




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to Albert Goerzen, 01-02-2012 23:16:27  
Got everything in the right position? If rods/ pistons are backwards, that can cause some grief. It is also possible that something is bent, that you haven't figured out yet. Walk away from it for a while, before you make it worse.



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Albert Goerzen

01-03-2012 18:33:41




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to DiyDave, 01-03-2012 04:09:22  
Ya got ya. I started putting this together on boxing day, Ive set it down so many times ive worn out the paint. Right now the bare block is on the engine stand, and the crank is standing on the bench. My son came by and mentioned that nothing seems to have changed since Xmas.!!



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BushogPapa

01-03-2012 13:03:20




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 Re: W201 crankshaft shims in reply to DiyDave, 01-03-2012 04:09:22  
Good idea...!

Done it many times..glad I did..

You will get it all to fit...takes time, sometimes..!

Ron..



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