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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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allis 180

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mike ceci

11-14-2011 15:08:22




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i have installed a loader on my 180. it is time to install the hoses and i am not sure how to go about it. there is an in and out on the loader controls and i have hydraulics on the rear of the tractor. can i use them for this or do i need to install it differently? also if i can do it this way what do i do for the control for these hydraulics?
thanx Mike.




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rogerdoger-plowboy

11-27-2011 08:47:24




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to mike ceci, 11-14-2011 15:08:22  
you can use the remote couplers on the back of the tractor, we did this with a series 4 D-17.



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mike ceci

11-27-2011 11:10:35




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to rogerdoger-plowboy, 11-27-2011 08:47:24  
good that is what i have done. have to fix my spool couple of leaks in it (old and used) hopefully not a big project to take apart and reseal. can u tell me what hydraulic fluid i should put in this tractor? do u know where i could get a service manual? thanx Mike



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rogerdoger-plowboy

11-27-2011 08:47:22




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to mike ceci, 11-14-2011 15:08:22  
you can use the remote couplers on the back of the tractor, we did this with a series 4 D-17.



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charles todd

11-16-2011 19:46:36




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to mike ceci, 11-14-2011 15:08:22  
Here are some pictures of a power beyond hydraulic setup. This is a Farmall 504, but will apply for any open center hydraulic system.

Diagram (Flow divider is specific to Farmall for Power Steering...)

third party image

Where I tied into system (Bottom line from pump to valve bank, top line from valve bank back into system)
third party image

Return line (Sump)

third party image

3 Spool Valve Bank (Left is supply, Right power beyond and return)

third party image

Loader Valve Bank

third party image

This is how I plumbed the Farmall 504. Similar could be done to the 180. I looked at my 180 tonight. I see how this could be applied to it.
My supply and return lines are 3/4" hose, work lines are 1/2" hose. This would be over kill on most systems. I replaced my old 12 gpm pump with a 17 gpm pump and did not change the gear. My system is putting over 20 gpm to the loader. My system has very high flow and has a larger filter kit to handle this flow. You would be fine with 1/2" supply/return lines and 3/8" work line with stock 180 hydraulics.

Good luck, I can provide help if needed.

CT

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mike ceci

11-18-2011 16:43:51




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to charles todd, 11-16-2011 19:46:36  
thank you for the pics. this should help i will let u know if i get stuck. Mike



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charles todd

11-16-2011 17:33:50




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to mike ceci, 11-14-2011 15:08:22  
For open center hydraulics you need a power beyond capable valve bank for your loader. I went through this on my Farmall 504 when I put a loader on it and tied the hydraulics in proper.

With this setup you break the line from the pump and feed the loader valve bank that has a power beyond sleeve in it. Then the power beyond out goes back to the other end of the line you cut to supply the rest of the circuit. There will be a third line off the loader valve bank that goes to the reservoir/tank/sump. This will power the loader and the hydraulics downstream.

I'd recommend strongly that you buy a new valve bank that has power beyond capabilities and buy the power beyond spool, then plumb inline with the existing hydraulics.

I have a 180 and I have toyed with the idea of putting a Koyker loader on it. The valve I bought was a 3 spool Prince valve with a pressure relief valve built in and a power beyond sleeve when I did the Farmall 504. I have it set to 2200 psi for the loader and the OEM 1650 psi relief takes care of the remotes.

I have pictures and drawn diagrams of my plumbing if you are interested. I tried running it off the remotes for a while (sucked) and refused to use a remote and "tie it back". That is a cobbled up way to do such a setup. I have maintenance and engineering backgrounds in industrial controls, which helped me to design my system.

CT

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mike ceci

11-16-2011 18:24:36




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to charles todd, 11-16-2011 17:33:50  
hi charles any info or help you can email me would be greatly appreciated. winter is almost here and i need help with the hydraulics. i am good at mechanical but havent worked with any hydraulics. so any pics you have or diagrams would be great. thanks Mike



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Bob Bancroft

11-17-2011 15:17:51




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to mike ceci, 11-16-2011 18:24:36  
Let us know about your progress. If I recall the piping on that tractor- it's not conducive to Charles' plan. But anything is possible with enough money and ingenuity. I just don't want you to blow something up, or worse, hurt yourself.



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mike ceci

11-18-2011 16:50:40




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to Bob Bancroft, 11-17-2011 15:17:51  
i will let you know how it is going hopefully nothing goes wrong but if you know of another idea please let me know. i still might have to do it the way you suggested i havent had time to look at the tractor this week going to be this weekends project. thanx Mike



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Bob Bancroft

11-14-2011 16:47:17




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to mike ceci, 11-14-2011 15:08:22  
The most important thing is that your loader valve is open center. You can feed it from the tractor remote-tie the lever back. Be aware that with that simple open center system the flow is not divided- in other words one activated spool will get it all. If I remember correctly, if you have a remote tied off feeding the loader valve, your three point won't raise.



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mike ceci

11-14-2011 16:57:10




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to Bob Bancroft, 11-14-2011 16:47:17  
thank you bob. would it be possible to tee it off the pump itself? or is that not a good idea? do you have any other ideas on how to run the hoses?



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Bob Bancroft

11-14-2011 17:08:01




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to mike ceci, 11-14-2011 16:57:10  
I believe the protection in that system (relief valve) is at the spool valve stack. If your loader valve has it's own relief, possibly you could HOOK in upstream somewhere. But you need to return the flow somewhere. And if you TEE off upstream from the tractor valve, you won't get any power anywhere. The oil will just flow through whichever valve is not activated, and back to the sump. Sounds like you might be thinking JD closed center system? Totally different.

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mike ceci

11-14-2011 17:49:24




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 Re: allis 180 in reply to Bob Bancroft, 11-14-2011 17:08:01  
ok thanks bob i will try it with the rear hydraulic connection.



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