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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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wd45 motor

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JB383

12-01-2010 14:19:09




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I have been working on my newest project. A 1954 wd45 all original paint, 3 original tires, decals are still visible. I had been parked in a barn since new and I purchased it from the original owners son. The motor is stuck but was running less than 7 years ago. I used a mechanics fiber optic scope to look in the cylinders when I got it and the front and rear cylinders still look almost shiny. The middle two cylinders have a very small line of light rust around the edge of the pistons. They don't look like they have had water standing in them since the top of the pistons look pretty clean like no rust has floated out onto them. I put kroil down the cylinders for the last month. I have tried pulling it around the field with dads tractor but it still hasn't broke loose. I tried rocking it back and forth every day for a couple weeks but still no luck. I put a mark on the crank pulley to see if it moved but it hasn't. I would rather not pull the head if I don't have to since its all original. Can a person use air pressure in the cylinders to break one loose. I know I would have to back off the rocker arms to close the valves. The man I bought the tractor from said his dad never worked the tractor hard. The steering wheel doesn't even have any back lash. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

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sammydwm

01-08-2011 11:55:22




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
why backwards?

You do realize that some pistons will be going up while others are going down don't you? So cylinders can be hitting rust no matter how you spin it.



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mdm1

01-08-2011 06:54:40




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
I check in on this forum from time to time as I enjoy seeing all the knowledge and different ways of solving problems, and I have a couple of Orange tractors. But I must say I have thought the reason for a forum was to help out people and everyone has a different way of going through the problem solving process. I believe you should absorb the info given here, digest it and apply to your situation. The gist of this whole reply is that I think a couple of people should take it outside and quit wasting everyone's time with their war. Done Said blackball me if you wish Mike

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Angle Iron

12-04-2010 05:25:55




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
As I see it if you turn an engine forward or backward some of the pistons are going up and some down. Should you pull the head? If there is a buidup of rust or corosion you don't have much choice as it won't compress and could do a lot of damage. As several have said do not try pulling them. I have reused a metal head gasket at times, a little copper coat spray and no leaks. Angle Iron



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old

12-03-2010 08:07:18




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
I'll tell you right now that braking a starter by doing that is not likely to ever happen. As a matter of fact I have been doing stuck engine for over 30 years and have yet to harm a starter doing so. Once in a while if the engine has stuck valves you might bend a push rod or 2 but that is about it unless you just plain sit and hold the starter button for say a minute or more and if you do then you will let the smoke out.

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Stuart

12-03-2010 09:48:23




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to old, 12-03-2010 08:07:18  
Then your engine is not stuck that tight. I repair starters and alts for extra cash and seen a bunch of starters wrecked that way. Hey Old, what part of not pushing the piston past all that rust or corrosion dont you understand???? Your way of doing it is great if you like breaking rings.



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jd b puller

02-05-2011 11:47:35




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to Stuart, 12-03-2010 09:48:23  
Stuart, I agree with the notion of not using the starter, but I don't follow the logic of spinning the engine backwards. Can you clarify?

Thanks,



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old

12-03-2010 10:04:05




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to Stuart, 12-03-2010 09:48:23  
Again kid shows me you know little or nothing. I have yet to brake a ring on any I have freed up and have been doing them for longer then you have been alive to boot. I to in years gone by rebuilt alternators and starters and a whole lot more. But then I have forgotten more then you have ever learned



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Stuart

12-03-2010 13:01:40




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to old, 12-03-2010 10:04:05  
Your just pi$$ed at the fact that some kid is smarter than you at one thing or another, thats all this boils down to. The only reason you MAY have freed more engines than me is because all your crap sits outside. If you have forgotten more than I have learned than that means at this point and time I know more than you.



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old

12-03-2010 13:16:11




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to Stuart, 12-03-2010 13:01:40  
Plus think about it. If the rust is so bad that it will break a ring then it is way to bad to be able to do anything with the engine other then open it up and rebuild it. Some times you really do not think before you fill your mouth with your own foot. I have been doing this stuff long before you ever thought about do it. I could tell you story's about the engine I built before you where born that took 5 sets of rings before it ran like it should but I did not own a hone etc at the time but rings at that time where only $5 a set so it was no big deal. Any engine that is locked up so bad that you have to spin it back wars to free it up most like as in a 90% chance will need to be opened up to repair it.

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Stuart

12-03-2010 22:13:28




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to old, 12-03-2010 13:16:11  
Any badly stuck motor should be spun backwards. Even if you dont break a ring you could badly score a sleeve or pistons. Any badly stuck motor should be opened up and looked at. Just because your ignorant does not mean you have the right to put others down. You talk about taking 3 tractors and building one like they did back in the 40s or 50s, well even my grandpa, poor as he was still bought a new head gasket. People on this site have you figured out. Who are you trying to fool? You have quantity but not quality.

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old

12-04-2010 09:55:38




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to Stuart, 12-03-2010 22:13:28  
Remember boy your the one who started the war a long time ago. But hey one of these days you might learn to respect your elders but since you act like a kid I treat you like a kid



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Stuart

12-04-2010 15:39:05




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to old, 12-04-2010 09:55:38  
You act like closed minded person. Seems everyone over the age of 40 thinks they know it all, like you. But you dont. That whole respect your elders thing is a line old people spit out when they get outsmarted by a younger person. Is basically a way to save their pride.



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Stuart

12-02-2010 20:33:40




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
DO NOT FREE THE ENGINE WITH THE STARTER!!! Turn the engine backwards!!!
That is the hardest thing to do to a badly stuck motor. For one thing you are pushing the piston and rings past all the built up rust and corrosion. Also using the starter can break the nose off the starter or damage it otherwise. Most likely if you engine is stuck that bad the rings will be frozen to. So the best thing to do is to is fill the cylinders with ATF or diesel fuel, wait a few days, take the head off and drive on the piston with a hammer and block of wood, turn the engine backwars once free, and remove the corrosion. I did a farmall A this summer that had one stuck piston. It was a cast piston and they dont freeze up as bad as an aluminum. I honed all the cylinders, the rings were free so I did not have to take the piston out. I replaced the bearings, head gasket and lapped the valves. It started up like it was just shut off. Had 20 hp on the dyno to. Runs perfect. One way to test if the rings are stuck is to put a little oil in the cylinder and leave it over night, if the same amount of oil is still there in the morning then they probabaly are not stuck. Hope this helps.

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Keith Molden

12-04-2010 15:54:58




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to Stuart, 12-02-2010 20:33:40  
Hey Steuart, I"m not quite sure I"m understanding your logic in turning an engine backwards to free it up. Seems to me that no matter which way you turn the crankshaft, some pistons will be going up while some will be going down, unless of course it"s a single cylinder engine. I haven"t been working on engines very long either ( only about 40 years now). Think about what you"re saying and while you"re at it, if you knew Rich (old)and would talk to him in a civil way YOU would stand a good chance of learning something. Just my thoughts. Keith

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Dan J

12-02-2010 19:58:56




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
Got to agree with OLD. I put ATF in a WD that had sat for 35 years. After about a week I took the plugs out and hooked up a 12V battery. It started turning over and pushed the ATF out. Cleaned the 35 year old plugs and put them back in. Tractor started immediately and after the smoke cleared it ran great. If everything else does not work THEN tear it apart. Good luck, Dan



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Rusty, MN

12-01-2010 17:55:40




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
possible the crankshaft bearings are siezed.



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LWW

12-01-2010 17:12:57




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
You should be able to get it with a little patience. Put your favorite loose juice in the cylinders, jack up one rear wheel, put it in 3rd gear, and whenever you walk past the tractor, work the raised tire back and forth. More loose juice, more rocking, and pretty soon you'll be spinning it over.



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old

12-01-2010 16:44:43




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
Never try to pull one to pop them free because things can/will brake when you do that. Me I would also not use the high priced stuff in the engine. I use ATF and fill the cylinders full then pour some in the exhaust. I then use a 12 volt battery and use fast short hits on the starter button. One like that if let sit a few weeks with ATF in the cylinders should pop free. But this time of year is also not a good time to free one up because of being so cold. Summer is the best time and the fastest time for one to free up. I have freed up more then 20 engines in the past 10 years using ATF

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Mike Bock

12-01-2010 16:28:29




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to JB383, 12-01-2010 14:19:09  
dont pull tractor around like that will bend the rods, pull the head and hammer on pistons with a block of wood and big hammer till you get it loose if stuck to bad will half to rebuild because all rings will be stuck



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bjb in Tx from Ne

12-02-2010 05:09:03




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to Mike Bock, 12-01-2010 16:28:29  
All the engines I have dealt with wouldn't budge with any liquid concoction. And when I finally did get them apart the rings were stuck. I second Mike's recommendation on the total engine rebuild.



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black

12-03-2010 12:57:17




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 Re: wd45 motor in reply to bjb in Tx from Ne, 12-02-2010 05:09:03  
I know a few folks that got real lucky with various fluids . Take me for example , my uncles w4 was in a barn for 25 years and was stuck . I poured Esential Lube in the spark plug holes, from the Napa dealer, and it turned over in 2 days. On the other hand I bought a wc that was outside in the bush for 15 years and started soaking it in June with the head off, 3 pistons are loose and #3 is still stuck. Every time I think of it , I try to turn 1 wheel in 3rd gear . and it's still solid . So ,it probably depends on how rusted the cylinders are that dictates the process to use .

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