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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed

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steveks

12-02-2009 06:34:47




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1959 D 14 that has been wired for 12v negative ground. It has a 12v Delco generator and new 12v Regitar regulator. It is not charging only reads 12.4 v across battery when running at any RPM. Lights, starter,everything works fine. I have polarized regulator by jumping 12v to field, I get the small spark. I have read to test generator to apply 12v to generator field post and some say to ground the generator field. I have applied 12 v and charging voltage does not change. I have disassembled generator and cleaned. The field windings check good and brushes look good. Any ideas? Thanks

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steve(ill)

12-02-2009 19:57:02




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 Re: Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed in reply to steveks, 12-02-2009 06:34:47  
Ken is right... ground the generator "F" terminal to the frame and see what the volt meter says. If that dont work, put the volt meter across the "A" and "F" terminals with the "F" grounded (motor running) and see what you get. If no voltage, the gen is bad.. With the "A" connected thru the regulator to the battery, the generator will charge about 1-2 volts above battery voltage. Dont matter if its a 6 volt gen, it will put out 13 volts with a 12 volt battery. If you disconnect the "A" wire, the generator will charge wide open and put out 13 volts on a 6 volt gen and almost 30 volts on a 12 volt generator.

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TractormanNC

12-02-2009 14:40:23




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 Re: Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed in reply to steveks, 12-02-2009 06:34:47  
First of all you don't polarize a regulator, you polarize a generator. The proper way is to jump from BAT to ARM or GEN.

The only Regitar regulators I have ever seen are electronic, if so you probably fried the reg when you tried to polarize it. Even if it is a mechanical reg, it may have fried the contact points in it.



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Texas Denny

12-02-2009 12:26:08




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 Re: Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed in reply to steveks, 12-02-2009 06:34:47  
The D-14 came with a 6 volt positive ground generator. If you have the original style generator, the most it can probably put out is about 8 to 10 volts. It will not charge a 12 volt battery no matter how you hook it up.

If what I surmise is correct, you can get a 12 volt alternator at you local auto store for about $50. Or you can find a 12 generator and a 12 volt regulator. The D-14 regulator is also 6 volt and won't work in a 12 volt system without modification.

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John T

12-02-2009 07:56:48




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 Re: Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed in reply to steveks, 12-02-2009 06:34:47  
First off try to Polarize correctly by momentraily flash jumping from BAT on the VR to ARM/GEN NOT to FLD...... See my URL below about dead grounding the FLD test and Motor test, you dont have that quite correct....

Next was it originally Pos or Neg ground?? It can still charge at EITHER polarity provided its correctly Polarized however SUBJECT TO if the ammeter isnt wired right it will register just bass ackwards. (see my Troubleshooting Procedure URL below for more info)

Youre correct, if coupled to a good working charging system at fast RPM the batetry voltage should rise from 12.6 volts up to at least 13 to 14 and over depending on battery and genny and RPM

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=665110

John T

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Kentb of SWMO

12-02-2009 07:02:22




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 Re: Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed in reply to steveks, 12-02-2009 06:34:47  
You polarize a generator by jumping between the battery terminal and the ARMATURE terminal. you test for a bad regulator/good generator by GROUNDING THE FIELD terminal. When the Field terminal is grounded the generator should charge full blast. If it does not the generator is bad. You can not test one type of generator armature failure with a ohm meter. You need a growler. If the generator charge full blast when the field terminal is grounded you have either a bad regulator or the regulator is not well grounded.

Kent

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steveks

12-02-2009 09:31:40




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 Re: Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed in reply to Kentb of SWMO, 12-02-2009 07:02:22  
Gentlemen
Thanks for the info. The Allis system according to the the book was originally a positive ground. I will certainly try all the suggestions. Again, thank you.



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John T

12-03-2009 07:25:39




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 Re: Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed in reply to steveks, 12-02-2009 09:31:40  
The system will work and charge at EITHER Pos or Neg ground provided you polarize the genny (NOT the VR) correctly.. The Troubleshooting Procedure (URL LINK) I provided for you is for all Class A Systems, it was primarily some early Fords that used a Class B system and on those you full field by applying voltage NOT a ground to the gennys FLD post.

The genny doesnt really know exactly what its voltage is going to be, its increased by turning it faster and/or pumping more current through its internal field windings. On a Class A system when you dead ground the gennys FLD post that allows for maximum field current which in turn allows for max charge subject to RPM and any third brush (on 3 brush gennys) settings.

Work through my procedure (Para 5) and you can see if non charging is due to a genny or a VR or other problem.

Best wishes let us know

John T

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Kentb of SWMO

12-02-2009 19:48:01




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 Re: Allis D 14 Charging System Help Needed in reply to steveks, 12-02-2009 09:31:40  
It does not matter which grounding system the generator is on. The instructions I gave you to diagnose your problem will work whether the system is positive or negative ground. It will not work on some other generator systems like Ford used. There are I think "A" circuit generators and "B" circuit generators. I do not remember which circuit Delco used BUT the instruction I posted is for Delco systems. If this tractor was mine I would put a internal regulated Delco alternator on it. This is what I did to Dad's two C-II Gleaners and my C-II Gleaner. They were all 12 volt positive ground until I installed the alternators.

Kent

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