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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

How to judge PTO speed WD45

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Yooper

07-13-2008 19:19:31




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Obviously there isnt a gauge on the WD45 that lets you know what your PTO speed is. How do you guys judge 540? 1/2 throttle? 3/4?




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JMS/.MN

07-13-2008 22:23:43




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to Yooper, 07-13-2008 19:19:31  
Wide open is a bit beyond 540 rpm on the pto. Run the engine 3/4 to 7/8 open and you will be fine. Half throttle is way too slow. You can get a mechanical tachometer that was used back in the 50s, to check combine, baler speed, etc., but it is not all that critical. Ten percent is not going to tear the machine apart.



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old

07-13-2008 21:23:46




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to Yooper, 07-13-2008 19:19:31  
Would you believe that magic number of 540 is just a ball park number. All equipment made to run on a PTO is set up at that 540 plus or minus. So if your turning say 600 or say 500 its no big deal the machines and made to handle a little more or a little less RPM



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wddave

07-13-2008 20:15:08




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to Yooper, 07-13-2008 19:19:31  
You might consider putting on a Tiny Tach to monitor the engine speed. Perhaps somebody has used one and will comment.



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Yooper

07-13-2008 20:12:12




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to Yooper, 07-13-2008 19:19:31  
I will be turning a baler but I'll be turning a International 990 7ft mower/cond first. Maybe I should just add a tach somewhere.



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BushogPapa

07-13-2008 20:50:13




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to Yooper, 07-13-2008 20:12:12  
Our WD-45's were never "set up", so ran the original maximum speed... We have ours marked at just a small amount over 1/2 throttle. Full throttle would surely be faster than 540. The governors on these keep rpm's pretty close too.. I would not recommend working the PTO overly hard--especially on a Bushog, if you havent had the lower gear case and gears magnafluxed.



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garytomaszewski

07-14-2008 08:01:02




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to BushogPapa, 07-13-2008 20:50:13  
BP, You are right, full throttle would be "8"!!! rpms faster than than 540, it's in your manual. Looked thru my manuals; JD A=545pto at 945engine rpm, Case SC=541pto @ 1550engine, all the info I have shows 540+/- at rated engine speed. Even baler manuals give you a stroke count range for optimum efficiency. This (PTO RPM) was one of the first standards that all makers agreed on.



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BushogPapa

07-14-2008 10:01:21




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to garytomaszewski, 07-14-2008 08:01:02  
At the time these tractors were made, NONE had the same PTO RPM recommendation from the Manufacturer..some JD tractors woudln't even turn 540 at full throttle..! If you wanted to ck PTO RPM, you either used a counter helt to the end of the PTO shaft, or, as stated..count the speed of a part of the equipment used..like 52 strokes per minute on the 116W Baler.. The WD-45 will not need to be anywhere near Full throttle to run the PTO at 540 rpm..

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garytomaszewski

07-14-2008 15:09:10




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to BushogPapa, 07-14-2008 10:01:21  
BP, Please reread my posts, I was the one who recommended counting baler strokes. AND per Deere manuals; A rated RPM= 975, PTO @ rated=545, B rated RPM= 1250, PTO @ rated= 540, G rated RPM=975, PTO @ rated=530. Per Case manual; DC rated RPM=1200, PTO=540 @ full rated RPM, SC=Full load speed=1550 RPM, PTO @ full rated RPM= 541 RPM. Per AC manual WD rated RPM=1400, PTO @ rated RPM=548 RPM. It is only later when engine speeds went up to the 1800-2000 range that the pto speeds were 540 at approximately 75% rated engine speed.

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garytomaszewski

07-15-2008 08:49:51




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to garytomaszewski, 07-14-2008 15:09:10  
BP, One thing I over looked; Max no load speed on a 45 is 1700 RPM and rated is 1400 (or a little over 3/4 throttle). So it looks like we are both correct as I have been refering to rated, where you measure hp/torque on a dyno. Again, my very first post said use baler manual and count strokes and mark throttle. Only way we ever set up the baler since us poor people didn't have any other way to measure.

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BushogPapa

07-14-2008 19:08:23




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to garytomaszewski, 07-14-2008 15:09:10  
OK, I give, I only Operated these in the "Real World" and I know where the throttle was set for PTO rpm.. A person needs to be careful what information they take to heart...given in these pages... Case in point..the Over-running clutch touted as being necessary.. If ya want full control of the equipment, you won't have one on the pto..But, the feeling seems to be that it would be "OK" for a kid to walk out to give you a drink of water..after you stopped and the bush hog is still turning for 4 minutes... Guess I have to leave the comments to the "New" expurts... Ron.

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garytomaszewski

07-14-2008 19:36:00




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to BushogPapa, 07-14-2008 19:08:23  
BP, Help me out here, I've been running the tractors I mentioned since 1954, and slowly restoring them since 1990 when do I become an "OLD" expert ?



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Sid

07-14-2008 20:32:11




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to garytomaszewski, 07-14-2008 19:36:00  
I don't know when one becomes an old expert. I do know what My experience is. When Dad bought an Allcrop 66 the Allis dealer came out in the field and checked the PTO speed on the WD tractor and the cylinder speed on the combine. He said "Run it three quarter throttle". I wonder why he told us that. Later on when we bought a New Holland baler we ran the baler and counted the strokes per minute. It just so happened that on the same WD it was three quartet throttle. My son and I have put three different balers on our WD and LO and behold when we counted the strokes on all three they ran a little less than three quarter throttle. The old timers around here that had good service out of their PTO equipment on Allis WDs and WD45s all seemed to agree three quarter throttle. The good Allis mechanics all said three quarter throttle. Mind you I am not saying you are wrong, but based on,my experience with WDs and WD45s,I am in agreement with BushogPapa You don't have to run a WD or WD45 at wide open throttle to get rated PTO speed.

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garytomaszewski

07-14-2008 21:12:09




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to Sid, 07-14-2008 20:32:11  
Sid, Dang it, that's what I said in my very first post, "look in the baler manual it says x strokes per minute and mark your throttle accordingly". That's all we ever did,none of that old stuff had tachs, 60 all crop had a hand held thing to check and then marked the throttle for that.



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garytomaszewski

07-13-2008 20:00:27




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to Yooper, 07-13-2008 19:19:31  
What are you turning ? A baler manual will say x strokes per minute, then mark throttle accordingly. There are various hand held tachs used to measure shaft speeds, not many things are real fussy about 25+or- rpms.



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Mike in Ohio

07-13-2008 19:48:35




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 Re: How to judge PTO speed WD45 in reply to Yooper, 07-13-2008 19:19:31  
I am not sure of the right answer to your question, but when using the 6' finish mower behind our wd45 I use second gear and full throttle. This gets the blades moving fast enough to lift the grass before cutting it. If I go in third gear at 1/2 throttle it it doesn't pick the grass up where the tires bent it down. Not scientific just what works for us. The manual says 548 rpm pto speed at 1400 rpm engine speed.

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