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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc

Author  [Modern View]
RTR

11-14-2012 14:57:00
66.87.75.37



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Trying to get it to start. Just put in new points and condenser. Don't know the gap. Looks visually the same as before. It fires but will not run. I put wires at 1-2-4-3 with 1 on cap towards rear of tractor. Going counterclockwise




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JMOR

11-19-2012 03:30:11
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to LeoinMI, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeI would look for blockage in small line to gauge, since I think that if oil pump were doing nothing, it wouldn't sound like it does in your video after running for 4 minutes without oil.



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Royse

11-18-2012 08:05:33
69.36.49.151



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to JPFL, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Did you prime the oil pump?

I would not run it with no oil pressure.

You might want to start a new topic on that.



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RTR

11-17-2012 13:04:29
66.87.73.244



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to Larry NCKS, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
I actually noticed the myself. I looked and the gauge I hooked up. After I shut it down I unhooked the line going into the gauge and started it back up. I have no oil coming through the tube. What could be the problem. ???



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showcrop

11-17-2012 13:03:50
75.67.231.80



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to awhtx, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Congratulations! Be sure to post Pics when you get the sheet metal on.



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Royse

11-17-2012 12:57:14
69.36.49.151



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to Ed1, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Do you have your oil pressure gauge disconnected?

I don't see it registering any oil pressure.



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RTR

11-17-2012 12:30:49
66.87.73.244



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to Joe IRL, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Here is a video of it running

http://youtu.be/c_6Vk_PWgWU




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RTR

11-17-2012 11:58:19
66.87.73.244



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to RTR, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
got it running. I changed the plug wires out to some others that I had and put the Order back to the factory settings per the cap and now she cranks and runs great. I was originally using a universal set of plug wires from TSC that are copper core. They said they were but dont look like it to me. I used a set of napa wires that I was told are not for tractors cause they aren't copper core but they work good.

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NWMO 901 SOS

11-17-2012 07:23:53
68.171.115.229



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to Wisconsin Cowman, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  

JMOR said: (quoted from post at 22:57:25 11/16/12) OK, now that you have the order down & have tried your RED position, try each of the other 3 positions shown. Same order, but different timing.


x2
This post was edited by NWMO 901 SOS at 07:25:23 11/17/12.

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JMOR

11-17-2012 06:40:04
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to Fritz Maurer, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
CNH or any of the after market suppliers, YT, etc. I have run them for years without the clip (even a little tape around top of shaft will tighten it up & will run lose, too, but to make it "right" get one. This is N distr, but clip is same (G). Swap wires, 3 times.



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JMOR

11-17-2012 06:40:04
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to Brian in MA, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
CNH or any of the after market suppliers, YT, etc. I have run them for years without the clip (even a little tape around top of shaft will tighten it up & will run lose, too, but to make it "right" get one. This is N distr, but clip is same (G). Swap wires, 3 times.



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RTR

11-17-2012 06:24:37
66.87.72.209



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to brian in ma, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Where can I get one if its missing? Do you have a picture of the clip? Thanks
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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showcrop

11-17-2012 06:19:29
75.67.231.80



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to brian in ma, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

There is supposed to be a little spring clip on top of the shaft, under the rotor. It could have stayed on when you pulled the rotor off but my experience is that it almost always pops off.



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JMOR

11-16-2012 19:57:25
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to JMOR, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
OK, now that you have the order down & have tried your RED position, try each of the other 3 positions shown. Same order, but different timing.



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RTR

11-16-2012 17:50:38
74.248.177.81



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to soundguy, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Spring clip? Was the new one supposed to come with one? The rotor button is really tight once put on the center of the distributer. It's actually kinda hard to tell if it is down on it in the correct place it is such a tight fit.
This is my first Ford to fix up, so I really don't know what the spring clip is. I'm used to Farmalls. ha.



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showcrop

11-16-2012 17:33:01
75.67.231.80



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to soundguy, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

You don't mention the little spring clip that holds the rotor tight. Didja put one of those in there too?



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RTR

11-16-2012 16:12:53
74.248.177.81



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to RTR, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Here is the way I've got it wired. I will check the points gap tomorrow with a gap gauge. I bought a new one today. I fires right off but backfires and spits and sputters and won't stay running.....or begin to. I never touched the distributor so the timing shouldn't be off. All I did was remove the dist. cap and rotor button and tape over the "dust cap" while painting. Points, plugs, rotor button, condenser, coil, and plug wires are all NEW.
The tractor had sat outside and i worked on it for a little over 1 year before finishing it. It has been a "backburner" project. Is it possible that the valves could have gotten stuck while sitting?? It ran PERFECT when I drove it to where it was in July 2011.

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RTR

11-16-2012 14:41:41
66.87.72.209



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to soundguy, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
I got the firing order right and still won't start. Wonder if the PO changed something?? Looks like I need to go ahead and time it. Anybody in here have a good guidance on timing this tractor. And to think..... I thought I was gonna get by without a manual

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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JMOR

11-14-2012 18:48:21
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to FOMOCO Farmer, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeNO! :roll:



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showcrop

11-14-2012 18:09:02
75.67.231.80



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to Larry NCKS, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
A friend who is pretty sharp with all things mechanical told me once that ALL four cylinder motors are 1243.



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David G

11-14-2012 19:00:18
205.215.206.18



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to showcrop, 11-14-2012 18:09:02  
Farmalls are 1342, the two outer cylinders come up at the same time and the two inner ones do. I guess you could grind the cam for either firing order.



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David G

11-14-2012 18:03:21
205.215.206.18



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to RTR, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
I am thinking here, but wouldn't 1243 in one direction be 1342 in the other. Do the first two pistons come up together?



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JMOR

11-14-2012 17:56:51
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to Sean in PA, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeWell, RTR, if it don't run as you have been told, don't give up..........#1 CAN be any one of the 4 holes in cap.....it just depends on how someone installed the distributor. Rear, front, toward engine, away from engine is all arbitrary. Factory did it one way, but any of the 4 are equally fine.......as said, just depends on how distributor was installed. If one doesn't work for you, just rotate every wire one slot & try again and after 4 tries you will have covered all possibilities.

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Kurt-NEPA

11-14-2012 17:13:33
70.44.245.96



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to RTR, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Confirmed - Gap is .025", Firing order 1243 Clockwise, Number one to the rear on the dizzy.



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RTR

11-14-2012 16:35:24
74.240.94.32



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to showcrop, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Thank you so much! I have been searching the forums with my phone all evening in the shop and COULDN"T FIND A THING regarding the firing order and point gap. I guess I didn't know how to use the search cause I'm sure it is on here. I did see ONE post and it said the firing order was CCW with #1 at the front of tractor. hah.

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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Jim.UT

11-14-2012 20:18:37
71.35.248.102



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to RTR, 11-14-2012 16:35:24  
The N-series front mount distributor is CCW but the Hundred series round distributor is CW. I made the same mistake once on my 850. It only takes once!



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LeoinMI

11-14-2012 16:16:12
75.134.126.44



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 Re: 641 spits and sputters - help with firing order, etc in reply to RTR, 11-14-2012 14:57:00  
Gap for points is .25. Firing order is 1-2-4-3 CLOCKWISE starting with #1 at rear of distributor. You need to switch #2 & #3 wires according to how you presently have them connected.



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