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Up date on S/MTA Fuel economy

T

the tractor vet

Well-known Member
Ok guys drug the S/MTA out of storage today and put it on a 60 inch silage blower blowing up over a 80 footer . Worked her hard for over 7 hours with vary little time between wagons , just enough time to clean up around the blower before she was running for all she had . 7 hours of hard running at over factory spec.'s as mine is set at 1950 RPM high idle and at rated PTO rpm she will do 59 .5 hp,She went thru 35 gallon of gas . The last two wagons were unloaded after dark and the manifold and muffler were cherry red with about four or five inches of fire out the pipe. There are NO GOB WEBS in her after today.
 
Hey,hey,I like those old gals.I have 1954 super MTA that picked lots of corn around my neck of woods over the years she had two different 2MH pickers with the last picker a 234.Hate to guess how many hours are on the old girl.These days she hauls manure year round.Scott
 
thanks i'll keep that in mind when mowing mine is stock but if i throttle up real quick it will run fire out about that high
 
It would have been neat to see old farmall hooked to blower by silo. Just curious how long did it take to unload a load? I am guessing you musta been feeding it slow for the old farmall to handle the blower. Them old tractors wre never realy powerhouses.
 
Should think about richening the fuel mixture to lower that exhaust/combustion temperature.
 
Well unless i drill the stock jet or i should say ream the stock jet there is no more to go as the mail screw is backed out all the way . And i can also see that you have never worked and old tractor even when they were new . let lone when we had the gas back then. A gas engine does run hotter then a diesel unless the fuel is turned up. You have never plowed at night with a gasser to see the glow of the manifold and muffler or had a gasser choppen and the manifold glowing or working a gasser under a mounted picker that is why many of then caught fire from fodder getting on the manifold . a working engine gets HOT don't care if it is a gas or diesel . And today with this fuel that they call gas they run way hotter. Years back they ran 160-180 degree thermostats now today they run things hotter and thermostats are 190 and up to get them to meet emissions and also the gas is made to burn hotter . You guys just don't get it on this gas deal or even the diesel . Even the amount of fuel that they burn . I was 9 years old when i sat my donkey on a brand new S/MTA as it was really one of the first wheel tractors that i drove spent many hours on a brand new 560 D and a 460 D two brand new 806's and one 706 went from a two bottom drag plow to 7 bottom onlands from driving a gas powered semi to a hopped up Cat with over 750 Hp. i have seen a lot of changes in my short time on this planet from doing a 16 second quarter mile to the fastest of 8.34 that i have been down the strip and now they are down in the 4's , From going to the gas station and gettig Sunoco 260 or one click above for the weekend of racing to now ya have to by Vp in a drum . From getting good pistons to getting what they sell ya. Am i worried about my S/MTA running like this , nope not at all as it has forged pistons and can take the heat am i worried about the valves nope is it over heating , nope not at all it is just getting up into the run zone . Can i get MORE out of it , yep i can , but why if i need more then i will put the 806 on if more power is needed or even the 706 . As long as we have the wright fuel it will do what it was made to do . How many injection pumps have had to be rebuild because of the new diesel ?? lots just ask any pump man. Like the guy that does the pumps for me he told me long ago the fuel change was the best thing to happen to him as business is booming .
 
(quoted from post at 08:37:51 10/12/12) Well unless i drill the stock jet or i should say ream the stock jet there is no more to go as the mail screw is backed out all the way . And i can also see that you have never worked and old tractor even when they were new . let lone when we had the gas back then. A gas engine does run hotter then a diesel unless the fuel is turned up. You have never plowed at night with a gasser to see the glow of the manifold and muffler or had a gasser choppen and the manifold glowing or working a gasser under a mounted picker that is why many of then caught fire from fodder getting on the manifold . a working engine gets HOT don't care if it is a gas or diesel . And today with this fuel that they call gas they run way hotter. Years back they ran 160-180 degree thermostats now today they run things hotter and thermostats are 190 and up to get them to meet emissions and also the gas is made to burn hotter . You guys just don't get it on this gas deal or even the diesel . Even the amount of fuel that they burn . I was 9 years old when i sat my donkey on a brand new S/MTA as it was really one of the first wheel tractors that i drove spent many hours on a brand new 560 D and a 460 D two brand new 806's and one 706 went from a two bottom drag plow to 7 bottom onlands from driving a gas powered semi to a hopped up Cat with over 750 Hp. i have seen a lot of changes in my short time on this planet from doing a 16 second quarter mile to the fastest of 8.34 that i have been down the strip and now they are down in the 4's , From going to the gas station and gettig Sunoco 260 or one click above for the weekend of racing to now ya have to by Vp in a drum . From getting good pistons to getting what they sell ya. Am i worried about my S/MTA running like this , nope not at all as it has forged pistons and can take the heat am i worried about the valves nope is it over heating , nope not at all it is just getting up into the run zone . Can i get MORE out of it , yep i can , but why if i need more then i will put the 806 on if more power is needed or even the 706 . As long as we have the wright fuel it will do what it was made to do . How many injection pumps have had to be rebuild because of the new diesel ?? lots just ask any pump man. Like the guy that does the pumps for me he told me long ago the fuel change was the best thing to happen to him as business is booming .
Click to expand...

I've never had the peasure of plowing at night with an M, but I have been around an M on a grinder-mixer at night, and yes, the muffler was glowing red and there was a flame from her stack. I HAVE plowed at night with a John Deere 4010 gasser, and the muffler got that same cherry red glow to it with about a 1 foot high flame from the stack.

I can also remember following an IH, gas powered straight truck on the highway at night, and could see underneath that truck, and yes, when that truck encountered some hills, she started breathing fire.
 
(quoted from post at 08:37:51 10/12/12) Well unless i drill the stock jet or i should say ream the stock jet there is no more to go as the mail screw is backed out all the way . And i can also see that you have never worked and old tractor even when they were new . let lone when we had the gas back then. A gas engine does run hotter then a diesel unless the fuel is turned up. You have never plowed at night with a gasser to see the glow of the manifold and muffler or had a gasser choppen and the manifold glowing or working a gasser under a mounted picker that is why many of then caught fire from fodder getting on the manifold . a working engine gets HOT don't care if it is a gas or diesel . And today with this fuel that they call gas they run way hotter. Years back they ran 160-180 degree thermostats now today they run things hotter and thermostats are 190 and up to get them to meet emissions and also the gas is made to burn hotter . You guys just don't get it on this gas deal or even the diesel . Even the amount of fuel that they burn . I was 9 years old when i sat my donkey on a brand new S/MTA as it was really one of the first wheel tractors that i drove spent many hours on a brand new 560 D and a 460 D two brand new 806's and one 706 went from a two bottom drag plow to 7 bottom onlands from driving a gas powered semi to a hopped up Cat with over 750 Hp. i have seen a lot of changes in my short time on this planet from doing a 16 second quarter mile to the fastest of 8.34 that i have been down the strip and now they are down in the 4's , From going to the gas station and gettig Sunoco 260 or one click above for the weekend of racing to now ya have to by Vp in a drum . From getting good pistons to getting what they sell ya. Am i worried about my S/MTA running like this , nope not at all as it has forged pistons and can take the heat am i worried about the valves nope is it over heating , nope not at all it is just getting up into the run zone . Can i get MORE out of it , yep i can , but why if i need more then i will put the 806 on if more power is needed or even the 706 . As long as we have the wright fuel it will do what it was made to do . How many injection pumps have had to be rebuild because of the new diesel ?? lots just ask any pump man. Like the guy that does the pumps for me he told me long ago the fuel change was the best thing to happen to him as business is booming .
Click to expand...

I am with you Vet. There are alot of guys on the board that think an M can't do half the things it can. You mentioned a 2 bottom plow. Was that on the M? There are a lot of guys on here that say no way can an M pull a 3 bottom. Any of the old timers around here went 3-14 and up on an M. I plowed with my SMTA and 3-14 at night and did not see any flame from the straight pipe (gasp...hearing damage... :roll: ) I have an M&W kit, M&W gov, timing work, and a lot of carb work done (including reaming venturi and jets) Does that mean I still have more room to run? The field was only a couple hundred yards long and then you had to turn. Could this be the reason it never got hot enough?

I am going to be plowing my neighbors 3 acre hay field this fall. Hopefully this will work her good again.
 
That's 5 gal an hour and sounds about right at max effort.

Have you ever put an EGT or O2 sensor on one? I've thought about that but haven't got around to experimenting yet.
 
I tune motorcycle/powersports engines as a good part of my living and farm which, I have some old tractors mixed in. A 460 is one of them. In my business jetting being spot on or off is the difference between a seized engine or melted piston, or an engine that will lead a healthy life. I use the same skill set to tune my old tractors. Now an old tractor can be fairly forgiving and can be hard to always get a good read on a spark plug, and they don't have as good of carburetor as most of what I normally deal with. However the same principles exist in a gasoline engine whether it is a generator or a pickup truck or drag car. I will not deny the newer fuel is bad, I will also not deny that it is possible to get a header red hot and still not ruin the engine. What I don't agree with is the fact that you cannot tune an engine to run on this gas today or all the stuff you in particular spew about how everyone needs Hi-Test in their old tractors. I have responded to a few of your posts about this over the years and I have never ever seen you reply with mathematical proof that these old tractors need such high octane provided the fuel mixture and timing are set properly. Just about everything that happens in an engine has a math formula to explain it. Needing high octane gas is a product of your compression ratio, cam, combustion chamber and so on that makes up your cranking compression as well as the ignition timing. So how do these old engines with 7 or 8:1 CR end up needing 97 octane???? Teach me, I want to know. Maybe you push your compression ratios or ignition timing or some other factor but I can tell you your theories do not line up with any part of engine science and I have a 6 cylinder IH that runs like a top on Regular gas and it's used often and I don't mean tractor shows.

Show me the numbers and math behind what you tell people and I will let you be.
 
I have never said 97 octane but it would be nice . What i did say is the Minimum FUEL REQUIREMENT FOR THE LATER 4cylinder and 6 cylinder engines is 93 . Now i am by no means a math major or thermo engineer , But i can read a plug and for the past fifty years built engines carbs and i can defiantly do a dist. i am not a computer wiz and i do not have a scanner if i did i would did out the lab report on the gas we had tested years back . As long as we run the 93 LIKE the owners manual says we have no problems . Yes the compression ratio is up on both 706's due to block decking to true the deck and there was about .007 taken off the deck on one and nine on the other one head took .009 to clean up and one took .012 . NOW the question is was it milled before and how much or are we the first to clean it up ?? If the timing correct yes as both dist. have been run on my machine and one needed a new set of springs and the other needed a new plate. Both run out as per the book stated. is the ing. timing set yes 18 degrees at wide open throttle . Each and everything has been gone over and each and every time they go down it is from someone putting in 87 either the fuel supplier sending out the wrong stuff or the last time My buddys son went to get gas and not thinking got 20 gallon of 87 while mowing away from the main farm as the gas station was a mile away and the farm was eight. I am just stating what the Chemist told us on how the 87 burns verses the 93 that we get today as what they call high test he told us that the 87 is a hot flash burn and that the HIGH test (93) is a cooler longer burn that will give more power from the longer burn.
 
My M did the sa me thing, I had the head done by an old time racer. He said the fire should stay in the motor, Itr haSA NEW VALVES, guides and no new pistions. Pulls on my dyno at 63 and pulls same plow easer then before and no red manifold darn. ha.
 
in college i worked at a local Kawi/Suzook dealer and took all the required testing to get certified. and heres what i can tell you. in NO WAY on god's green earth is an old antique tractor and a high strung motorcycle engine going to have the same characteristics of tuning. motorcycle are so touchy its not even funny, and they are a PITA t tune. The old tractors have FAR MORE room for error since they arent designed to have the snot rung out of them to get every single ounce of power out of them.


Ive run my old W-30 at night plowing and that ole girl get so dam* hot the manifold, chimney AND the cast iron exhaust elbow will glow. she never misses a beat
 
You know that and so do i . Myself i have no desire to screw with motorcycles . But i have spent enough time with some pretty awsome engines in my time on a dyno and i can tell ya they get HOT and on more then one dyno run of long term not just run it up load it and shut it down and say oh yea we got x Hp. this is a run on to see how LONG it will hold before it makes spare pieces and parts. I have heads so hot that you could almost see the flash of the fire thru the port and the headers going up thru the ceiling glowing pure red . I would hate to see what he would have to say about my old 350 small cam Cummings that was cranked up . Not only did the manifold glow so did the turbo the exhaust pipe all the way up to the bottom of the muffler . Never melted he down but i did blow a head gskt and only got a half million miles out of her. My 806 on the bagger will glow the manifold and muffler with a foot of fire out the top . She has just a little south of 10000 hours on her and she has never been touched that i know of and i have had her for 24 years. But according to him i don't know what i am doing with carbs , guess that is why people bring them here for rebuilds and have me come out a set them up on there tractors . I really don't care what people use for fuel or what they do with there toys . I use to try and help people FOR FREE when i should have set up a web site and CHARGED . IF the rest of the know it alls knew how to fix there JUNK they would not be asking on here . Keep in mind Myself Pete 23 and Owen made our livings fixen I H tractors .
 
Well i am and OLD time racer also and yes i can do a head i can C/C it i can port it and flow it i can mill it i can install the guides i can install new seats and put bigger valves in . It still will get HOT when your working it if it looping along and the gov. is not holding the butterfly wide open then it is not going to get hot . When your going down a hill or on flat ground even with 3x16 behind mine she will not glow the manifold But you put her on the pull up a 1/2 mile long field she sure will when the gov. opens up and she stays wide open . And yes i can get more if i want to spend money on her i can and have two S/MTA's that i did for guys years ago that have a lot more then mine has . If i need more then we got the 706 if that is not enough then the 806 comes out if that is not enough then the 1066 comes out and if that is not enough then the 2255 comes out . After that well we are out of luck .
 
Read my post, it says the old tractors are more forgiving.

Yes, the same principles apply in any gasoline engine. Take away the fuel and it runs hotter, add fuel and it cools it down. You will not notice the tractor being off as easy though because it is (similar to a vehicle) feeding all the cylinders from one carb instead of one carb per cylinder.
 
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