Thanks all!

A big thank you to those of you who have answered my questions over the last few weeks, dealing with weak spark, changing tires, charging, and probably a couple others.

Since bringing the tractor home I've:
- Changed the battery (it was very dead)
- Replaced the spark plug wires (they needed it)
- Replaced the distributor rotor, cap, and gaskets (whether they needed it or not)
- Replaced all the wires that go through that tube with the spark wires (at least one needed it)
- Replaced the sediment bowl (the valve handle was gone)
- Replaced the front tires (rubber was all cracked--those things were OLD)
- Replaced brake pads and springs/adjusters (I'm not sure if they really needed it or if what it really needed was new seals. We'll see.)
- Fixed a connection in the generator

And now it's running fine, and charging, it goes back to the cabin to plow snow for the winter--which is the purpose I bought it for three years ago. Hopefully in the summer it'll be used for rough mowing, too. (Still need to buy a mower, but I did buy the ORC.)

But the work is not done. There are a bunch of seals that probably need replacing--pretty much all of them except the head gasket. I think the motor needs a rebuild, based on the oil pressures. (So I guess the head gasket will be replaced, too.) I use 0W40 oil in there (which I could only find in Mobil 1, so there's $60 of oil in the motor) so I can start it easily in winter, but still have oil pressure when it's hot. And even then the pressure still gets pretty low when it's hot.

But that will wait at least until spring. And I know I'll be able to get answers here to the questions I'll inevitably have!

Thanks again,

-Paul
 
Paul........you do realize 0-40wt oil is really THIN even fer wintertime in Edmonton and will cause BEARING FAILURE. I don't care iff'n you put $100 worth of synthetic oil in yer tractor, overhaul is going to cost you at least $1500. In 1939, Ford recommended 30wt detergent and to add 1-qt of kerosene in the winter time. (seriously) Me? I'd use 10-30wt oil which is very common. (dyno is just fine, but synthetic will also work) Do I haffta tell you to change yer fricken oil??? ........respectfully, the oily Dell
 
(quoted from post at 14:22:18 11/28/12) Paul........you do realize 0-40wt oil is really THIN even fer wintertime in Edmonton and will cause BEARING FAILURE. I don't care iff'n you put $100 worth of synthetic oil in yer tractor, overhaul is going to cost you at least $1500. In 1939, Ford recommended 30wt detergent and to add 1-qt of kerosene in the winter time. (seriously) Me? I'd use 10-30wt oil which is very common. (dyno is just fine, but synthetic will also work) Do I haffta tell you to change yer fricken oil??? ........respectfully, the oily Dell

All those expensive high powered BMW's and Mercedes whizzing around the Autobahn with a factory fill of SAE 0W-40 are really going to be expensive to fix when their engines seize up. Not to mention all those NASCAR engines.

When are you going to get your head out of your rump Dell? SAE xxW-40 is always a heavier oil that than any SAE xxW- 30 or even a mono-grade SAE 30 oil - period. It is in fact heavier than what Ford originally recommended. You can read and understand a simple graph right? Here are the actual scientifically measured viscosity curves for SAE 10W-30 and SAE 0W-40. SAE 0W-40 will not harm an N in the slightest (although I can't say the same for the owner's wallet). In fact in really cold weather it will start easier and lubricate better. My advice to you Paul is to ignore Dell's oil blather - he doesn't have a clue.

TOH

SAE0W40vsSAE10W30.jpg
 
TOH, would you mind expanding on your answer a little bit and explaining
the meanings of the first and second numbers of multi-vis oil?
For example, what is the difference between say 0W-40 and 15W-40?
 
(quoted from post at 22:49:13 11/28/12) TOH, would you mind expanding on your answer a little bit and explaining
the meanings of the first and second numbers of multi-vis oil?
For example, what is the difference between say 0W-40 and 15W-40?

Certainly - that's a great question. Too bad Dell repeatedly refuses to listen to the answer. The basic principle is that the grade number tells you what the viscosity of the oil is [u:71a755f6a3][b:71a755f6a3]at a given temperature[/b:71a755f6a3][/u:71a755f6a3]. And despite the fact it is a number it's not an exact measure but rather a [u:71a755f6a3][b:71a755f6a3]grade[/b:71a755f6a3][/u:71a755f6a3] label like thin, medium, medium heavy, heavy, extra heavy, etc.

For example SAE 30 means the oil has a viscosity anywhere from 9.3 to 12.5 cST inclusive when measued at exactly 100C. It must also have a minimum high temperature/high shear viscosity of 2.9 cP measured at exactly 150C. This is it's HOT grade number. The SAE defines five HOT grades - 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60. These grades tell you what the viscosity of the oil is when very hot inside a hard working engine (100C and 150C)

There is also a set of COLD grade numbers. They tell you what the oil's viscosity is when it is very cold (-10C to -40C). For example SAE 10W means the oil has a MAXIMUM cranking viscosity of 7000 cP measured at -25C. It must also have a MAXIMUM pumping viscosity of 60,000 cP @ -30C. There are six COLD grade numbers - 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, and 25W. Thes grades tell you how the oil will perform on inital startup in a cold engine.

Here is a link to a table that lists all of the SAE grades and their viscosity requirements:

SAE J300 Motor Oil Viscosity Grades

Now that we have the meaning of the basic labels defined how are they used and why? The simple answer is refined engine oils are not all alike and we need a "simple" way to categorize them based on their viscosity when both cold and hot. They are refined from different types of crude oil and their physical properties can differ greatly depending on the type of crude, how they are refined, and what additives are blended into them. For example a minimally refined oil made from a high grade crude may be able to meet the SAE 30 hot requirement but can't meet any of the cold requirements. It is a mono-grade SAE 30.

If you subject it to more agressive and expensive refining you may be able to make it meet the SAE 10W standard as well. Now it meets BOTH standards and becomes an SAE 10W30 grade oil.

Similarly you might be able to use that less costly refining process to refine a SAE 10W20 oil from a lower grade crude. And if you blend in some viscosity enhancers to that SAE 10W20 oil you can increase its hot viscosity without affecting it's cold viscosity and turn it into an SAE 10W30 grade oil. Blend in even more viscosity enhancers and you can make it an SAE 10W40 grade oil.

There are limits to how far you can strtch the viscosity band of conventional motor oil. With really agressive refining you can get a SAE 10W20 without resorting to additives. Or possibly a 10W30 or 10W40 with the use of some viscosity enhancing additives. Enter the synthetics. These are custom hydrocarbon chains that are built from the ground up by "gluing" shorter gas (ethylen) molecules together rather than breaking the long molecules in crude up. You have none of the unwanted by products that are in crude oil and you can custom engineer really high performance behavior. A SAE 10W30 with no additives, or a 0W40 with minimal additives. The downside is it's expensive to make.

Hopefully that answers your basic question and I'm guessing creates a few new ones. So here is a link to my long winded explanation:

Understanding the SAE Motor Oil Viscosity Standard

TOH
 
Thank you, yes you did answer my question, and created new ones,
so I appreciate the link so I can do some research.
My dad explained it to me like this: "10W-30 acts like SAE10 when cold,
and acts like SAE30 when hot."
I knew there had to be more to it than that, but never really dug into it.
 
(quoted from post at 00:49:14 11/29/12) Thank you, yes you did answer my question, and created new ones,
so I appreciate the link so I can do some research.
My dad explained it to me like this: "10W-30 acts like SAE10 when cold,
and acts like SAE30 when hot."
I knew there had to be more to it than that, but never really dug into it.

That is the usual analogy and I don't much like it. It confuses the issue more than it explains anything because you have to know what "acts like" really means for it to be instructive. And most people's perception of what it means is usually totally wrong. You have my email - read the article and if you have any questions contact me offline and we can chat.

TOH
 
OK after all the above post and all have merit is there one oil to use in areas that low would be "0" and say avg. would be 40 over the winter. I have never had a engine failure due to the quality of the oil by itself in all my years and this ranged from P&W R985 radial engines to 9200 RPM Harley XR 750 engines. But back on our 8n's--------what oil for above temps i listed.
 
(quoted from post at 09:42:18 11/29/12) OK after all the above post and all have merit is there one oil to use in areas that low would be "0" and say avg. would be 40 over the winter. I have never had a engine failure due to the quality of the oil by itself in all my years and this ranged from P&W R985 radial engines to 9200 RPM Harley XR 750 engines. But back on our 8n's--------what oil for above temps i listed.

My opinion assuming we are talking an engine in good mechanical condition and your temperatures are 0F and 40F is the grade that has been the general purpose all-season standard in the vast majority of engines for over two decades now - SAE 10W30. Or possibly a bit newer (and probably more expensive) SAE 5W30 if you get much more than one or two days/nights in single digits.

Bottom line is an N will be happy with just about any SAE 30 oil. Because they are flatheads they are less susceptible to cold weather damage caused by overly thick cold oil but that doesn't mean they won't benefit from properly chosen grades on both ends of the temperature band. Easier starting and lower fuel consumption are two immediate benefits that come to mind. That said anything heavier than SAE 30 on the hot end is almost surely just wasting fuel. And anything lighter than 10W on the cold side is probably wasting money unless you live well north of the Mason-Dixon line and have extended periods of sub 15F weather.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 08:34:59 11/29/12)



Bottom line is an N will be happy with just about any SAE 30 oil. Because they are flatheads they are less susceptible to cold weather damage caused by overly thick cold oil but that doesn't mean they won't benefit from properly chosen grades on both ends of the temperature band. Easier starting and lower fuel consumption are two immediate benefits that come to mind. That said anything heavier than SAE 30 on the hot end is almost surely just wasting fuel. And anything lighter than 10W on the cold side is probably wasting money unless you live well north of the Mason-Dixon line and have extended periods of sub 15F weather.

TOH

TOH great response. And you are right, most people don't know much about oils. Giving credit where it is due Dell does give some great advice, just a bit weak on oils.


LOL most winters we have extended periods of sub minus 15F.....way to far north of the Mason Dixon line here! We have sseen -2F once this fall already.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 14:49:33 11/29/12)
(quoted from post at 08:34:59 11/29/12)



Bottom line is an N will be happy with just about any SAE 30 oil. Because they are flatheads they are less susceptible to cold weather damage caused by overly thick cold oil but that doesn't mean they won't benefit from properly chosen grades on both ends of the temperature band. Easier starting and lower fuel consumption are two immediate benefits that come to mind. That said anything heavier than SAE 30 on the hot end is almost surely just wasting fuel. And anything lighter than 10W on the cold side is probably wasting money unless you live well north of the Mason-Dixon line and have extended periods of sub 15F weather.

TOH

TOH great response. And you are right, most people don't know much about oils. Giving credit where it is due Dell does give some great advice, just a bit weak on oils.


LOL most winters we have extended periods of sub minus 15F.....way to far north of the Mason Dixon line here! We have sseen -2F once this fall already.

Rick

You can keep that sort of weather up there. I'm probably less than 15 miles south of the M-D line and that's plenty far north!! We get just a few days in the single digits most winters although the last few have been milder. Just out of curiosity Rick, what grade oil do you and Mr. Clause use in your N's up your way?

TOH
 

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