Sammy in Kansas
Member
I just bought a couple chain saws at an auction and they are both running but I need to know the proper gas/oil mixtures ratio. first is a Jonsered and the other is a McCullogh. Thanks in advance for your help.
- Thread starter Sammy in Kansas
- Start date
If they're really old they might be 20:1 it should say on the fuel cap or on a data plate. If not search the internet by make/model for an owner's manual or specifications sheet. Some will allow you to run 50:1 if you use synthetic two cycle oil, but that was a specification from 30 years ago. Just the brand name doesn't give enough information as the manufacturers changed their requirements over the years. They are probably 50:1. Find a manual it'll tell you what ratio and what type of oil to use as well as what chain oil to use and explain the user adjustments on it.
It really depends on the model and when they were made. Jonies for the last 25 years or so have been 50-1 engines. A Mac might need something more like 30-1 or richer depending on how old it is, or it might be a 40 or 50-1 machine.
FWIW- I have saws dating from the early 60's up. I tend to run about 40-1 in all of them with no problems. But you want good 2 cycle oil, not outboard oil and certainly not motor oil! The biggest reason the old engines used 16-1 or 20-1 was because the lubes were so poor back in the day. With a good 2 cycle oil, assuming the saw isn't worn out or has been abused, I think something in the 35 or 40-1 range will work for most saws. There will be exceptions that simply require a richer mix due to specific wear, design or conditions. IF the saw will run good at 50-1 then that's what I'd go with. Too much mix oil is almost as bad as not enough.
FWIW- I have saws dating from the early 60's up. I tend to run about 40-1 in all of them with no problems. But you want good 2 cycle oil, not outboard oil and certainly not motor oil! The biggest reason the old engines used 16-1 or 20-1 was because the lubes were so poor back in the day. With a good 2 cycle oil, assuming the saw isn't worn out or has been abused, I think something in the 35 or 40-1 range will work for most saws. There will be exceptions that simply require a richer mix due to specific wear, design or conditions. IF the saw will run good at 50-1 then that's what I'd go with. Too much mix oil is almost as bad as not enough.
Jim in Ma.
Well-known Member
I read somewhere, Outboard oil is formulated for a water cooled engine.
Butch(OH)
Well-known Member
Always a topic for disagreement but my two cents is buy a quality mixing oil made for air cooled engines and use it at the label ratio. Somebody asked about "outboard" oil and the answer is differant operating temps for water cooled engines. Some outboard oils meet the lessor or older air cooled engine specs but none of them meet the toughest newest specs for air cooled engines. Oil is cheap enough why take a chance is the question here? I personaly own 25 saws from brand new to antique and I run the same fuel mix in all of them, Stihl sythetic at 50-1. While I admit the antiques only get run enough to keep them limbered up it also doesnt take long for lubrication failures to show up either. My experiance from the pile of non-running saws, weed eaters, tillers etc that show up at my shop door tells me a person should worry about keeping his fuel mix fresh, proper storage preperation and his carb set right rather than what brand of oil or oil/fuel ratio he is using, other's experiance differs.
Gary from Muleshoe
Well-known Member
You are obviously computer literate so why not google you question with make and model and get a sure answer?? Just a thought. Usually on here you five experts that don't agree on anything.
An old Mac will want 25:1 mix. The newer ones that are repainted Poulan's will work as well as they're going to work on 50:1. The Jonsered if it's made after 1980 should be fine at 50:1.
I'd also add that to use 50:1 ratio you NEED an oil like the Stihl synthetic or an oil of equivelant spec. All mixing oil is not created equal... That oil is actually made by Castrol and no doubt marketed by Husky and Jonsered as well.
Newer saws, particularly with spark arrestors and emission junk need the leaner ratio or else they plug up their exhausts if you use too much oil...
Rod
I'd also add that to use 50:1 ratio you NEED an oil like the Stihl synthetic or an oil of equivelant spec. All mixing oil is not created equal... That oil is actually made by Castrol and no doubt marketed by Husky and Jonsered as well.
Newer saws, particularly with spark arrestors and emission junk need the leaner ratio or else they plug up their exhausts if you use too much oil...
Rod
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
More oil is not always better.
Extra oil results in more combustion residue and lowers the fuel octane which makes detonation more likely.
Use 91 or better octane in a small high output air cooled engine. More engines have been ruined from detonation than from lack of lubrication.
Extra oil results in more combustion residue and lowers the fuel octane which makes detonation more likely.
Use 91 or better octane in a small high output air cooled engine. More engines have been ruined from detonation than from lack of lubrication.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
eldo case I to use OPTI-2 in all my 2 cycle engines with no problems for over 12 years. I like not having to mix a half dozen different mixtures. Engine have very little smoke and it doesn't stink like most of the other mixs.
A real US made McCulloch made into the 1980s (and not a later Asian saw) calls for a 20 to 1 mix with SAE 30W motor oil or 40 to 1 with air-cooled rated two-stroke-cycle oil..
Early Jonsereds circa. 1960s used 10 to 1 with SAE 50 motor oil. Later Jonsereds used 40 t0 1 with air-cooled rated two-stroke-cycle oil.
Just about any saw will do fine with that sort of mixing. I've got two dozen saws I use and all get 25 to mix with air-cooled rated two-stroke-cycle oil. I've been doing that for 50 years now and never burnt up an engine yet. That includes several new saws that call for 50 to 1. My 25 to 1 mix works just fine and it's cheap insurance. The reason for the low-ratio modern mixes is the EPA and has nothing to do with engine longevity. It has been proven over and over that even new engines last a bit longer with heavier mixes. Newer saws are built with more durable materials then many older saws because of the low oil mixes.
What Buick-Deere stated is almost 100% true. Yes, heavy mixes plug up spark arrestors (if you have them). Eventually they all plug anyway. Easy to clean or remove. And yes - more oil to a mix makes a saw run leaner since carburetors work by volume. More oil means less gas per cc. No problem as long as you can adjust the carb and open up the main jet a bit. The benefit of a heavier mix is it allows for mix-mistakes, allows use in older engines that call for 16 to 1 mix, and will help any engine - new or old last longer.
Early Jonsereds circa. 1960s used 10 to 1 with SAE 50 motor oil. Later Jonsereds used 40 t0 1 with air-cooled rated two-stroke-cycle oil.
Just about any saw will do fine with that sort of mixing. I've got two dozen saws I use and all get 25 to mix with air-cooled rated two-stroke-cycle oil. I've been doing that for 50 years now and never burnt up an engine yet. That includes several new saws that call for 50 to 1. My 25 to 1 mix works just fine and it's cheap insurance. The reason for the low-ratio modern mixes is the EPA and has nothing to do with engine longevity. It has been proven over and over that even new engines last a bit longer with heavier mixes. Newer saws are built with more durable materials then many older saws because of the low oil mixes.
What Buick-Deere stated is almost 100% true. Yes, heavy mixes plug up spark arrestors (if you have them). Eventually they all plug anyway. Easy to clean or remove. And yes - more oil to a mix makes a saw run leaner since carburetors work by volume. More oil means less gas per cc. No problem as long as you can adjust the carb and open up the main jet a bit. The benefit of a heavier mix is it allows for mix-mistakes, allows use in older engines that call for 16 to 1 mix, and will help any engine - new or old last longer.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Until fairly recently, two-stroke oils for outboards and air-cooled power equipment were the same. That changed with the introduction of the TCW classifications (latest is TCW-3), which are specifically formulated for water-cooled engines. Sure, you can use TCW-3 in an air-cooled engine, but you're much better off using a JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD oil like Opti2.
TomH in PA
Well-known Member
It depends on the oil, not the engine. Buy 50:1 oil and mix at that.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
I've had several different brands of chainsaws and each had a different recomendation for gas/oil ratio. I think I would look up the gas/oil ratio for the models you have. Its posible that each will take different gas.
cannonball
Member
my 1976 homelite is 16 to 1
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
I run everything 40-1 regardless of age, I think the oil is so much better nowadays that it's fine. That's the important thing, use good 2-stroke air cooled oil. I have also heard that the 50-1 and up is to reduce pollution. I have some equipment 40 years old and some 3, no trouble with any of it, and I do not use sta-bil, but occasionally some sea-foam. Good luck!
I work on many kinds of two cycle engines and whether a chainsaw or a snowmobile they basically have the same type of bearings and inner workings. Obviously at the time when they recommended engine oil for a two-cycle mix it was because it was what was available. Then you got to the point we had two cycle oil, but it was still not good enough to run at light ratios. Fast forward to today and we have oils that can run 100:1 and do fine at it. There is no reason this won't work in the engine. However the big thing that will get you into trouble here is the carburetor jetting. You can mix gas at 20:1 or 50:1 and melt down an engine just as quick either way if the jetting is not correct. The fuel mixture is was keeps your engine and combustion temperature in check. Since the pre-mix is flowing through a jet together (but burns separately) 20:1 will flow less gas through the jet than 50:1 since the extra oil displaced gasoline. Remember the oil is only there for lubrication, not cooling!
All that said you can run a modern mix in the saw, however you need to verify your carburetor adjustments. Really if you own a saw you should learn how to tune it anyways so you can adjust for temperature, etc. In your case if you have a saw that says 20:1 and you put 50:1 in, it will run rich.
All that said you can run a modern mix in the saw, however you need to verify your carburetor adjustments. Really if you own a saw you should learn how to tune it anyways so you can adjust for temperature, etc. In your case if you have a saw that says 20:1 and you put 50:1 in, it will run rich.
John Niolon
Member
I'll second or third or whatever the number is in favor of Opti-2. I've got equipment from 20:1 to 50:1 and all I use is Opti-2 with no ill effects for about 10 years...
used to keep three or four different mixes and was always out of the one I needed. I've talked to several 2 cycle mechanics that swear it's all they use.... great stuff but a little hard to find sometimes
john
used to keep three or four different mixes and was always out of the one I needed. I've talked to several 2 cycle mechanics that swear it's all they use.... great stuff but a little hard to find sometimes
john
About your comment . . "I work on many kinds of two cycle engines and whether a chainsaw or a snowmobile they basically have the same type of bearings and inner workings. . "
I strongly disagree. We must be in different worlds. There are many differences over the years and some parts are much less durable then others. In two-stroke-cycle engines - there are the old crank-weight mounted face-sealing roto-ports, many engines with cheap sleeve bearings for mains, others with cheap needle bearings riding directly on crank journals for mains, cylinders with thin chrome plating that can peel like tin foil when too hot, etc.
New engines made to run with low-oil mixes tend to use very durable parts because they have to in order to last. Full ball bearing support on mains, Mahle, silicon impregnated, or heavy-wall iron cylinder liners, various piston skirt coatings, special allow piston rings, etc.
I strongly disagree. We must be in different worlds. There are many differences over the years and some parts are much less durable then others. In two-stroke-cycle engines - there are the old crank-weight mounted face-sealing roto-ports, many engines with cheap sleeve bearings for mains, others with cheap needle bearings riding directly on crank journals for mains, cylinders with thin chrome plating that can peel like tin foil when too hot, etc.
New engines made to run with low-oil mixes tend to use very durable parts because they have to in order to last. Full ball bearing support on mains, Mahle, silicon impregnated, or heavy-wall iron cylinder liners, various piston skirt coatings, special allow piston rings, etc.
Let me clarify: Professional grade engines. Tear down a stihl chainsaw and tell me what is inside, you will find ball bearing mains, needle bearing lower rod ends, nikasil plated cylinder (just like a dirtbike). Sorry I didn't think of a rotary valve engine in this day and age, I know what they are but not that common anymore. I will still stick to my statements about use of lubricants. The oils we have today are superior to the oils of 50 years ago so we can now do more with less.
Stihl has made several saws that did not have ball bearing mains. That includes some little el-cheapo saws like the 009 and 011 and also some big professional saws like the first 050s.
Homelite also made several pro saws with without full ball bearing support for mains - e.g the 330.
Husquvarna makes many new saws with ball bearing -yes - but anchored with a small steel plate riveted to a plastic crankcase that can melt and come loose.
And going back to the 70s, 60s, and 50s? Tons of stuff. Seeing how this is a Website with a focus on old stuff - seems older stuff is certainly relevant.
Homelite also made several pro saws with without full ball bearing support for mains - e.g the 330.
Husquvarna makes many new saws with ball bearing -yes - but anchored with a small steel plate riveted to a plastic crankcase that can melt and come loose.
And going back to the 70s, 60s, and 50s? Tons of stuff. Seeing how this is a Website with a focus on old stuff - seems older stuff is certainly relevant.
Do we agree lubrication needs? Heck yes, as far as I can tell. I will offer the caveat though that much advertising and claims with modern oils is based on hype. Not everything, but much.
But stating that some of the engine designs I mentioned are out of use and not worth discussing? That's a silly thing to say on a Website that has a focus on older stuff. Same goes with claiming the older stuff is no longer in use. I still use my Stihl 050 quite a bit. Same with my 040 and S10. I also have a Sthil Oll that I occasionally use as a climbing saw. The 050 and 0ll are examples of saws that lack two ball bearings as mains. I also have a couple of late 60s, early 70s vintage Homelites and Poulans that not only lack ball bearing mains - they also have very thin cylinder wall platings and they are quite inferior to what is taken for granted now in new saws. I still use them as spare saws at several remote properties.
But stating that some of the engine designs I mentioned are out of use and not worth discussing? That's a silly thing to say on a Website that has a focus on older stuff. Same goes with claiming the older stuff is no longer in use. I still use my Stihl 050 quite a bit. Same with my 040 and S10. I also have a Sthil Oll that I occasionally use as a climbing saw. The 050 and 0ll are examples of saws that lack two ball bearings as mains. I also have a couple of late 60s, early 70s vintage Homelites and Poulans that not only lack ball bearing mains - they also have very thin cylinder wall platings and they are quite inferior to what is taken for granted now in new saws. I still use them as spare saws at several remote properties.
You have to admit that on the grand scale those old saws are not in common use. We all know people still running this old stuff, I think the oldest I have is an older Super XL, but I don't use it unless all the others die, I have an Echo 600P that is my go-to saw mostly for firewood because I'm a busy guy and when it's time to work I need things that I don't have to tinker with or worry about. I know what your saying but...
I still have a Super XL. That saw I do not use since many of my newer saws cut much faster, weigh less, and don't stall every time you lay them down hot.
I was a Homelite mechanic in the 60s. I also worked for Asplundh as a tree climber and at that time, all our saws were those cursed Homelites. I don't how many times I'd be hanging from a tree, have one stall and then damn near kill myself trying to get it going again.
That all being said, my old Sthil 040, 045, and 030 are still very useful. Much more so then any of my old XL12s, XL101s, etc. Saws like the 60s-70s Stihls is what put Homelite and Mac out of business.
To this day - I still have to rate my early 80s Sthil 045AV as the best pro saw I've ever owned and I'm still using it. My new Dolmar is 64 ccs and my old Stihl 045AV is 87 ccs. I'd say they are near equals in cutting power and speed. But - my Sthil is 30 years old and runs great. I'm going to have to wait until 2042 and see if my Dolmar is still running before I can compare fairly. And, I'm sure I'll be long-dead by then.
I was a Homelite mechanic in the 60s. I also worked for Asplundh as a tree climber and at that time, all our saws were those cursed Homelites. I don't how many times I'd be hanging from a tree, have one stall and then damn near kill myself trying to get it going again.
That all being said, my old Sthil 040, 045, and 030 are still very useful. Much more so then any of my old XL12s, XL101s, etc. Saws like the 60s-70s Stihls is what put Homelite and Mac out of business.
To this day - I still have to rate my early 80s Sthil 045AV as the best pro saw I've ever owned and I'm still using it. My new Dolmar is 64 ccs and my old Stihl 045AV is 87 ccs. I'd say they are near equals in cutting power and speed. But - my Sthil is 30 years old and runs great. I'm going to have to wait until 2042 and see if my Dolmar is still running before I can compare fairly. And, I'm sure I'll be long-dead by then.
I have to agree with LJD. THis site caters to those crusty old boys that use crusty old toys. My newest saw dates from 1988 IIRC. That's ancient as far as most today are concerned. My oldest dates from 64 or 65 I believe. They all run fine and get used heavily year round. You've got a zillion design and material changes over that time. Broad brush statements on a site like this often lead to inaccuracies and assumptions by those not too familiar with things and how they've changed.
In the end, using a decent quality mix oil is your best bet. What ratio you use it at depends on a variety of considerations. I can tell you this for sure though- I serviced a lot of saws calling for 16 to 25-1 that were run on 35 or 40-1 and they were in good shape. I also serviced brand new pro grade Huskies that had issues with the relatively rich mix. At one time the head wrench for Jonsered on the east coast was espousing the theory too rich a mix lead to crank bearing failure. Believe what you want.
In the end, using a decent quality mix oil is your best bet. What ratio you use it at depends on a variety of considerations. I can tell you this for sure though- I serviced a lot of saws calling for 16 to 25-1 that were run on 35 or 40-1 and they were in good shape. I also serviced brand new pro grade Huskies that had issues with the relatively rich mix. At one time the head wrench for Jonsered on the east coast was espousing the theory too rich a mix lead to crank bearing failure. Believe what you want.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
You might check out this site. http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/GasbyManufacturer?OpenView&Start=59&Count=30&Expand=60#60
It lists the specifications and gas/oil ratios for the different Jonsered saws. You will need a model number. There are about 25 different saws listed.
It lists the specifications and gas/oil ratios for the different Jonsered saws. You will need a model number. There are about 25 different saws listed.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
i work at a husqvarna dealer mix the jonsred 50-1 and use only stihl,husqvarna,or echo brand oils
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