Detroit diesel 453N timing gears

MikeS806/H · Dec 14, 2011

working on a 453N detroit timing gears stripped on cam, balance shaft and blower, what would cause this problem? engine looks like it was rebuilt not long ago.

MikeS806/H · Dec 14, 2011

also where is a good place to find timing gears reasonable? I have the newer style fine tooth gears

NCWayne · Dec 14, 2011

I've rebuilt Detroits that had been in operation for 40 years and have never seen one strip the timing gears. Heck most of them didn't even show an appreciable amount of wear on the gears, much less being even close to being stripped. That said I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would have the power to hang anything in the timing up to the point that the gears would strip. I say that because to strip them something would have had to have brought the whole works to a screaching halt while the crank continued to turn long enough to strip them. Heck even a stop as violent and suddern of a stop as happens when something gets thrown into the blower and locks it up is more likely to twist off the blower drive shaft than it is to do anything else. Funny thing is that shaft is driven off of the same gearset your talking about so why wouldn't they even try to strip in that instance but do so in another?

If you ever figure out what did it please post back and let us know. You've definately got my curiousity up on this one.

VicS · Dec 14, 2011

I can't imagine them striping unless someone put in the old noisy gears or vice-versa. I have had my blower lock up, not enough end play. killed the motor. I have the number of a guy who has at least 50 of these gears. He is located in southern Il. Mt. Carmel Dick Walker 618 948 2714 . Vic

counterclockwise · Dec 14, 2011

There is a 1900 Oliver with a 453 on ebay now. It is being sold piece by piece for parts. Two days left. Might want to watch it.

mite-help · Dec 14, 2011

New one--surely will have valve train/ piston contact damage also--I'd also like to know what happened----

Bob Huntress · Dec 14, 2011

"what would cause this problem?"

Very bad lubrication, like none. I mean what does the oil pump look like? When they put the engine back together did they even put an oil pump in it?

MikeS806/H · Dec 14, 2011

I didnt take the oil pump apart, I removed a rod cap and the bearing looked great, the engine was very low on oil but with the bearing looking good it must of been getting some oil

MikeS806/H · Dec 14, 2011

yes there is some bent valves

Bob Huntress · Dec 14, 2011

Based on the bearings lower being good, and the pressure being low, I'm guessing that either insufficient oil or a plugged gallery, as opposed to dirty or bad oil. Can you post pics of the wiped parts?

buickanddeere · Dec 14, 2011

Either a runaway which whacked the valves into the pistons and locked the cam from rotating.
Or somebody mixed the old soft gears with the later hardened gears.

Jon Hagen · Dec 14, 2011

I had a 4-53 4 valve motor out of a truck that Broke rather than burned up the drive gears. The previous owner said they thought a bit of metal trash either from the valve gear or dumped in with the oil, went through that rear head drain hole and fell into the gears.

That explanation must have been right, as I replaced only the gears and the bent valves on 1 cylinder. Ran the engine trouble free for years after that.

MikeS806/H · Dec 14, 2011

just posted some pic"s

Bob Huntress · Dec 14, 2011

Mike did you clean those parts up?

MikeS806/H · Dec 14, 2011

nope I didnt clean them, engine is very clean inside

Bob Huntress · Dec 14, 2011

I assume you will be replacing those parts and reassembling the engine. Beyond replacing the failed parts, verify the oil passages are clear going into the front. The pics are small and when I magnify them they distort, so I can't tell a lot from them. I was looking for signs of burning or heat or sludge etc. Something that would show that the parts had or had not been recieving good lubrication. One of the gears could be showing signs of excessive heat. On the top is that a blue tinge around the gear?

Fullthrottle · Dec 14, 2011

Had a 6-71 come in once that had a high speed "sputter", engine had been gone through recently. Gears looked just like yours. It was in a truck and could have been overspeeded. But I figured some piece of trash had got in them. About a year ago I looked at an old dozer(4-53) for a customer that just "quit running" Same deal with the gears. He was pretty sure it hadn't been overspeeded. He indicated that sometime in the past the head had been replaced because it was cracked. Maybe valve contact before then but who knows. So I'm still going with the something gets in'um theory.

Bob Huntress · Dec 14, 2011

Mike, could you send a blown up one of the top pic, especially the gears that are on top of the engine front, and the top of the gear in the lower pic that doesn't have the orange permatex on it? It does look like a lubrication failure, but that is my view.

MikeS806/H · Dec 14, 2011

I took a close look at the gears I dont see any blue or discoloring on any of the gears, I was thinking about reusing the crank gear but it looks worn on the one side, needs all gears but the governor gear. engine is really clean cylinder"s look close to new, if I can find some good used gears I think im just going to put gears on and fix the bent valves. I priced new gears from DD (crank gear is unavailable) and not going to buy them way to much $$$$

Bob Huntress · Dec 14, 2011

The wear on the crankshaft gear could be backlash adjustment. When you reassemble the engine, just make sure you're within .002" backlash.

MikeS806/H · Dec 15, 2011

this was the best I could do with the pictures, thats actually orange paint on the gear, when I enlarged the pic I seen the blue on the gear, it must of been the flash on the camera cause it doesnt look like that in my hand

MikeS806/H · Dec 15, 2011

,

Bob Huntress · Dec 15, 2011

It does look like it hasn't gotten good lubrication, when I look at the one on the right. I don't think they are cheap, but I generally order Dietroit parts from Western Branch in Virginia. I worked at a local truck shop in Norfolk awhile, as well as the Navy, and I may get a slightly better than average price from one of the guys there who's name isn't important. 53, 71, 92 and 149 series engines are common, yet, still parts aren't as easy to get as engines still built. You'ld think that since all the new 47 foot Coast Guard Motor Life Boats use 8V92's, there would be a more plentiful supply for 2 stroke parts. You can call 757-673-7200 and they can get you your parts in a timely way, though, they are not neseccarily cheap. I got to get the parts shipped, but, that is where I get mine.
Untitled URL Link

DieselTech1969 · Dec 25, 2012

The only thing I know of that will cause this is one of the 2 things listed below during rebuild...

1: Cam was installed backwards, (this is easy to do)

2: The wrong set of timing marks were used when the engine was timed

buickanddeere · Dec 25, 2012

(quoted from post at 16:32:07 12/14/11) working on a 453N detroit timing gears stripped on cam, balance shaft and blower, what would cause this problem? engine looks like it was rebuilt not long ago.

There is rebuilt and then there is something slapped together by Bubba.....

This message is a reply to an archived post by Mikes806H on December 14, 2011 at 12:32:07.
The original subject was "Detroit diesel 453N timing gears".

There are early "soft" timing gears and late "hardened" timing gears. Don"t mix them or the hard gears will mill the soft gears.
I have most of an aluminium block 3-53 in the shed. Thought it would make a great stealth engine upgrade in a 435 puller if the hood was stretched.
Engine has stripped timing gears. Never got around to opening it up to find why.
When building the engine use N sleeves and pistons. And C50 injectors. Upgrade the blower seal after using the cutting tool.

Detroit diesel 453N timing gears

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

New User

Well-known Member

Similar threads