Little Big B
Member
has anyone tryed nitrous oxide on a 2 cylinder puller. how about nitro methane race fuel? what kind of horse power gains are we looking at? thanks
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- Thread starter Little Big B
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Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
yeah tried nitro in a a john it will double the horsepower output of any engine at 100%
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
p.s. it sounds good to.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
How are you going to meter in the extra fuel on demand with a tractor without a fuel pump?
Re-jetting to run E-85 will make almost as much extra power as a nitro mix. With much less time, expense or risk.
Re-jetting to run E-85 will make almost as much extra power as a nitro mix. With much less time, expense or risk.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I could have a 200+ hp H? HOLY SHOOT! tell me more!!! ChadS
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
i guess top fuel should look into e 85 then its alot cheaper than nitro at 40.00 a gallon. ill buy the nitro if youll bring a e 85 motor to the dyno and she will make more on nitro . Its simple mathematics on btus per pound .
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
email me ill tell you it aint that hard ole redneck like me can handle it .
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Im sure its possible to get a good gain from it, but my question would be,, is it safe? Could I put the stuff in the tank, haul it to the pull, and be ok with it being in the tank out in the open sunlight and not explode from the heat? Or is it more of keeping it shaded and cool and pour it in right before the run, then drain it back out when Im finished? Chad
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I have one queation for you. How in the world are you gonna light nitro methane off. Especially at 100%. I think you may be stretching that one just a tad. YOU BET! thats to funny!
Little Big B
Member
i run E85 and octane booster. and i havnt seen double the hp.
Nitrous will add power to any engine, but it must be respected. You can run your B real rich and meter in a slight amount and probably gain 10-15 hp, but to do it right, you need to add the proper amount of fuel with the nitrous by using a fogger nozzle and an electric fuel pump. I have no experience with nitrous on a tractor, but have used it a lot on drag cars. I always used a conservative approach, and never had any problems with it. With a very slow turning small two cylinder, a little will go a long way, so be carefull. And no, E85 won't help a bit unless you have a bunch of compression and a lot of spark advance.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
flaspoint is 110 degrees. much higher than gas or alcohol. its like any other chemical the safest way to handle it is to be familiar with its caracteristics.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
85% nitro/15% methanol will make more power than E-85.
As for being practical? For all the difference and the problems with nitro, stick with E-85. Get the E85 metered corectly and making frost on the intake manifold. The colder denser mixture will gain some HP. More delta T during the combustion/expansion cycle too.
As for being practical? For all the difference and the problems with nitro, stick with E-85. Get the E85 metered corectly and making frost on the intake manifold. The colder denser mixture will gain some HP. More delta T during the combustion/expansion cycle too.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
you light it with spark plugs then when the heat in the engine builds it burns the electrodes off and diesels down the track just like it does in a fueler .funny man ha ha .dont ever try it its more addictive than drugs just purchased 200 dollars worth today. it also doesnt matter the percentage it is the horsepower gains are equal to the percentages. it removes paint rather easy also.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
85%methanol 15%nitro makes more power than e 85 if jetted correctly. you gain 20 %power from just pure methanol before adding any oxygen.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
thats the tell tell sign of nitro . the nitric acid feals like needles to the face and eyes.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
It won"t look stock with a fuel pump.
There would barely be enough flow capacity in the factory sediment bowl, fuel lines and carb float needle valve to run E-85. Let alone methanol or methanol/nitro mix.
There would barely be enough flow capacity in the factory sediment bowl, fuel lines and carb float needle valve to run E-85. Let alone methanol or methanol/nitro mix.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
:lol: I will agree theres nothing stock about running it . You guys read some stuff into what i wrote I never said i ran 100% in that A . I did run the A on a percentage of nitro . So heres the rest of the story . A man brought a long hood A to the shop the carb was flooding with fuel bad . I made an attempt to adjust the carb and could not get it to change . He sent the carb out to have it refurbishe when he brought it back it still flooded . So to prove it was more fuel than air i proceeded with pur methanol it ran somewhat better but was still flooding then i proceeded mixing some nitro to lean it out .At 30% it really straightend up and hit the hardest lick i had heard in a while . So I told the guy to gt the carb done by a deere man who could drill out the passages correctly . He thanked me and hauled it to auction and its somewhere north of here.(quoted from post at 14:06:26 08/19/08) It won"t look stock with a fuel pump.
There would barely be enough flow capacity in the factory sediment bowl, fuel lines and carb float needle valve to run E-85. Let alone methanol or methanol/nitro mix.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
If rules are not nessisary, why not inject it separately? Drill a couple holes placed in the manifold, get ya some ford fuel injectors, run a pump and a toggle switch, use an adjustable regulator and set it on the dyno, and a toggle switch to control it. By pass the carb completely, maybe a shutoff of the carbs main jet somehow so it will switch over when the injectors are on. I do it just to inject methanol, what somebody else puts in it is up to them. True meaning of the phrase "All Fuel" right?
james rumph
Member
I have to chime in on this one ! I have run hundreds of gallons of 99.5 % methanol and gone up as high as 15% nitro with nitrous on top of it all.
Aside from the crazy timing advance how on earth are you lighting nitro, IT IS NOT A FUEL.
We first off don't have the rpm to warrent the explosive [ that is what it is]. These motors do not have cranks with bob weights so the vibration and violance from the fuel would tare them apart.
Are you useing that stuff made by Klotz called nitropane or something like that it's been awhile.
Fuel motors use twin mags called 44s they are capable of 44 amps each , that is what it takes to run this explosive [fuel].
Nitrous can be used if a colder heat range plug is used . It works even better with the MSD digital 7 . You program it for less advance at the start of the pull and bring the advance in timing as the load comes on.
These are lessons i learned with alot of years of racing, and "no" burned pistons.
Sounds like someone is blowing smoke up someones fannie!!!!
Aside from the crazy timing advance how on earth are you lighting nitro, IT IS NOT A FUEL.
We first off don't have the rpm to warrent the explosive [ that is what it is]. These motors do not have cranks with bob weights so the vibration and violance from the fuel would tare them apart.
Are you useing that stuff made by Klotz called nitropane or something like that it's been awhile.
Fuel motors use twin mags called 44s they are capable of 44 amps each , that is what it takes to run this explosive [fuel].
Nitrous can be used if a colder heat range plug is used . It works even better with the MSD digital 7 . You program it for less advance at the start of the pull and bring the advance in timing as the load comes on.
These are lessons i learned with alot of years of racing, and "no" burned pistons.
Sounds like someone is blowing smoke up someones fannie!!!!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
james if i must school you again the twin mags are to over come the compression that the 750hp it takes to drive the blower makes . compression will blow the spark out.(quoted from post at 20:09:39 08/19/08) I have to chime in on this one ! I have run hundreds of gallons of 99.5 % methanol and gone up as high as 15% nitro with nitrous on top of it all.
Aside from the crazy timing advance how on earth are you lighting nitro, IT IS NOT A FUEL.
We first off don't have the rpm to warrent the explosive [ that is what it is]. These motors do not have cranks with bob weights so the vibration and violance from the fuel would tare them apart.
Are you useing that stuff made by Klotz called nitropane or something like that it's been awhile.
Fuel motors use twin mags called 44s they are capable of 44 amps each , that is what it takes to run this explosive [fuel].
Nitrous can be used if a colder heat range plug is used . It works even better with the MSD digital 7 . You program it for less advance at the start of the pull and bring the advance in timing as the load comes on.
These are lessons i learned with alot of years of racing, and "no" burned pistons.
Sounds like someone is blowing smoke up someones fannie!!!!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
ps james you may want to also tell them that you ran 15% nitro to keep from freezing the methanol up when using nitrous.(quoted from post at 04:24:31 08/20/08)james if i must school you again the twin mags are to over come the compression that the 750hp it takes to drive the blower makes . compression will blow the spark out.(quoted from post at 20:09:39 08/19/08) I have to chime in on this one ! I have run hundreds of gallons of 99.5 % methanol and gone up as high as 15% nitro with nitrous on top of it all.
Aside from the crazy timing advance how on earth are you lighting nitro, IT IS NOT A FUEL.
We first off don't have the rpm to warrent the explosive [ that is what it is]. These motors do not have cranks with bob weights so the vibration and violance from the fuel would tare them apart.
Are you useing that stuff made by Klotz called nitropane or something like that it's been awhile.
Fuel motors use twin mags called 44s they are capable of 44 amps each , that is what it takes to run this explosive [fuel].
Nitrous can be used if a colder heat range plug is used . It works even better with the MSD digital 7 . You program it for less advance at the start of the pull and bring the advance in timing as the load comes on.
These are lessons i learned with alot of years of racing, and "no" burned pistons.
Sounds like someone is blowing smoke up someones fannie!!!!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
So I probably would want to not have it out in the sun too long if its in my stock tank. Surface temps can get pretty warm on nice days! Hate to have something go wrong if not handled right. Chad
james rumph
Member
Actually your wrong . We had a extra tank that contained race fuel [ gas ] that was sprayed with the Nirous to control the effect.
So in short we were running 99.5% methanol with 15% nitro topped off with Nitrous and to control the reaction race fuel was used with the nitrous.
Under high rpm compression puts spark out, that is why we use C.D.Is with adjustable timing.
Do you even know how to start a fuel car?
That isn't metanol they squirt in the butterflys, it is race gas. Stable fuel..
I bet you never knew this fact as well. In WW2 we had Nitrous on some of our fighters, fact.
It was a one shot system to get a pilot out of trouble, but it hurt the motors. I have seen the manual on this, very intresting.
So in short, stick to things that you really know and have really done.
I'm the first to admit when i'm wrong and i'm happy when someone teaches me something i didn't know.
Your never wrong and know everthing. When i grow up i want to be "JUST LIKE YOU"..
Be open minded and listen to people, you might be suprized at the back grounds of some of us.
James Rumph
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Not all planes used nitrous. Most just had a "once per flight" emergency supercharger overboost" with water injection to control detonation.
It used a lot of water/ethanol which is heavy and hard to come by in war time.
Nitro is slow burning, low octane fuel which carries much of it"s own oxidizer. It"s expensive, corrosive, dangerous and just one more thing to go wrong.
Nitro has it"s place but not for majority of us.
It used a lot of water/ethanol which is heavy and hard to come by in war time.
Nitro is slow burning, low octane fuel which carries much of it"s own oxidizer. It"s expensive, corrosive, dangerous and just one more thing to go wrong.
Nitro has it"s place but not for majority of us.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
(quoted from post at 10:17:45 08/20/08)
Actually your wrong . We had a extra tank that contained race fuel [ gas ] that was sprayed with the Nirous to control the effect.
So in short we were running 99.5% methanol with 15% nitro topped off with Nitrous and to control the reaction race fuel was used with the nitrous.
Under high rpm compression puts spark out, that is why we use C.D.Is with adjustable timing.
Do you even know how to start a fuel car?
That isn't metanol they squirt in the butterflys, it is race gas. Stable fuel..
I bet you never knew this fact as well. In WW2 we had Nitrous on some of our fighters, fact.
It was a one shot system to get a pilot out of trouble, but it hurt the motors. I have seen the manual on this, very intresting.
So in short, stick to things that you really know and have really done.
I'm the first to admit when i'm wrong and i'm happy when someone teaches me something i didn't know.
Your never wrong and know everthing. When i grow up i want to be "JUST LIKE YOU"..
Be open minded and listen to people, you might be suprized at the back grounds of some of us.
yes I KNOW THAT THE GAS HAS A TWO FOLD IT EASES STARTING AND LUBRICATES THE BUTTERFLIES . james you need to read more than just the dictionary to stay up in motorsports . in 1950,s they were starting 50% nitro engines with single mags i would tend to think that a standard hei is better than 50 era mags but with that said if a 50,s era mag lites it of then why would it not do it today. and as for experience ran the nhra 8.90 quick rod circuit a while how about you . ever heard of southern thunder the ellis gang their friends of mine . they ran 30 % just to keep the blower from icing over on the methanol . did you learn anything from shiming the rocker stands yet ? as for the timming nitro likes advance but if your using it as a oxidizer then retard it just as you would nitrous . you simply can not run 100%and keep a motor together it beats the bottom mains to death and running inconel exhaust valves is expensive to but it does make power and lots of it . so does oxygenating fuel with percentages of it to just ask micheal waltrip . keep knowing it all someday you will . mitch James Rumph
(quoted from post at 18:10:08 08/19/08) If rules are not nessisary, why not inject it separately? Drill a couple holes placed in the manifold, get ya some ford fuel injectors, run a pump and a toggle switch, use an adjustable regulator and set it on the dyno, and a toggle switch to control it. By pass the carb completely, maybe a shutoff of the carbs main jet somehow so it will switch over when the injectors are on. I do it just to inject methanol, what somebody else puts in it is up to them. True meaning of the phrase "All Fuel" right?
You can't just hook standard fuel injectors up to a toggle switch and turn them on. First of all , they just don't have the duty cycle for it, they will overheat and stick open permanently, also with them being open all the time it would no longer spray it would just dribble. Secondly, you need to develop some type of injector driver using Pulse Width Modulation, that varies how long the injectors are open to regulate that amount of fuel that is dispensed. You "could" develop a system using ford fuel injectors to inject fuel but I would not reccomend it for anything other than gasoline unless they are E85 injectors. Even then if you are only using 2 You are going to have to have 60lbs injectors or even bigger to get enough fuel with the amount of displacement that these big 2 and 4 cylinders have and the largest stock injectors used by FORD were 42lb injectors which where in a lightning.
So it is possible but it would be quite more complicated that just putting two injectors in the intake and hooking them to a toggle switch.
james rumph
Member
I don't remember what planes they were useing it on, i want to say planes that were used for dive bombing. My grandfather brought the manual back, i couldn't believe they were useing it back then. The wife and i hit alot of the intage war bird shows and i have yet to find a plane with it.
Maybe it was just something they were playing with, but they wrote a hole manual on it.
I recall reading that it took headgaskets out due to the cylinder presure, but the pilots came home.
james rumph
Member
I REST MY CASE !
And yes i did learn something useful from the gentlemen who took the time to explain it to me. It worked out to around .030 differance in valve opening not enough to worry about on this motor.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
james ive never been on the johny popper web site but ive heard them laughing at you on it from some that do . dad always said it was better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool than to speak and remove all doubt i know he was repeating something that he was not the originator of to give credit for . any way this is another case just as the case where you give information to a person on a allis 226 engine that it was obvious by anyone who has had the head off one that you my friend knew nothing about the engine you were advising on .The same is correct for blending fuels .(quoted from post at 13:32:52 08/20/08)
I REST MY CASE !
And yes i did learn something useful from the gentlemen who took the time to explain it to me. It worked out to around .030 differance in valve opening not enough to worry about on this motor.
james rumph
Member
At least i can say i have done it . In your case it's someone you know.
I have dabbled in many forms of motor sports and done pretty well.
I have always mixed my own fuels and been fine with the out come.
You need to start your own website, ask the Dr ! You could be the great "OZ" in this world.
[ The guy with the big head ]
It is so easy pushing your buttons it's fun.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Im constently amazed at people who argue a point they are not familuar with . theres nothing wrong with not knowing something . the other day at a pull a fellow tractor puller said he was going to build a new sbc 400 using aluminum 18 degree heads . i asked him why he didnt go to 14 or to a 10 degree valve angles which are newer and currently produced he wanted to argue that but started out by saying he had never heard of such a head and who made them I simply stated brodix 11x heads pro action makes 14 degree and the sb2 had more than 18 degree valve role along with a splayed valve design . he proceeded to tell me that 18 degree was the best and dominate at the pulls . i wander if the dominators really told him the correct valve angles and if he could recognize the differences .(quoted from post at 17:57:39 08/20/08)
At least i can say i have done it . In your case it's someone you know.
I have dabbled in many forms of motor sports and done pretty well.
I have always mixed my own fuels and been fine with the out come.
You need to start your own website, ask the Dr ! You could be the great "OZ" in this world.
[ The guy with the big head ]
It is so easy pushing your buttons it's fun.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Yep, best to have a trigger, and turn it on and off at will by the toggle switch. Inline high pressure pump off a Ford Truck, and build a stable holder for the fuel rail. Or go old school fuel injection, and only turn the pump and an electric solinoid, no electric injectors and metered thru sized jets thru hoses at targeted locations on a tuned intake. EFI is best to run it by its self with a throttle body with built in idle control, and run a ECM. Ford mustang 4 cyl efi ecms for 4 cyl, 300 6cyl for 6 cyl. Surely,, these ECMS can be reprogrammed to anything, so how hard would it be to really tune it? As long as the ECM doesnt lose power to lose memory, it will remember what you do and adapt to conditions or controlled conditions on a dyno, or store it in a laptop and well, thats too much fun there,, HAHA! I dont know if this has been done, but Im sure one day it will get done. How much of a gain would you think this would be over carburation? Full Electronic fuel injection, tuned intake and throttle body, built in multiple spark IGN, even distributorless IGN with coil packs. 20 percent rpm max limit. Fits under the rule, "Enhanced Electrical Systems Allowed". HAHA!! ChadS
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
not a thourough reader are you . ive ran it in a tractor . and i ran nhra quick rod . yes i used my friends hydrometer to read the percentages but yes i ran it in a tractor .maybe youll catch it this time.(quoted from post at 17:57:39 08/20/08)
At least i can say i have done it . In your case it's someone you know.
I have dabbled in many forms of motor sports and done pretty well.
I have always mixed my own fuels and been fine with the out come.
You need to start your own website, ask the Dr ! You could be the great "OZ" in this world.
[ The guy with the big head ]
It is so easy pushing your buttons it's fun.
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