PTO Overrun Coupler

Rein_Quest · Feb 14, 2018

Something someone said recently got stuck in my head. It was about a mower attachment pushing your tractor through a tree line, barn, or wife's car...

Is this something I should be worried about on my Farmall H? I thought the PTO lever physically disengaged the shaft.

rrlund · Feb 15, 2018

If something like a brush hog is spinning and the PTO lever is engaged on your H,it will push the tractor even with the clutch pedal pressed down,yes. It acts like a big flywheel. Try it for yourself. Put the tractor in gear with the engine shut off,engage the PTO and turn the PTO shaft with a pipe wrench or something. Have somebody hold the clutch pedal down. The tractor will start to move.

Rein_Quest · Feb 15, 2018

I'll take your word for it. I just always thought that was a physical disengage.

I'll make sure I get one if I get something with a little spindown time.

Ten years ago I remember a couple things I sometimes stopped by engine braking. Not sure that was wise but it worked. In gear low throttle and hit the kill switch.

paul · Feb 15, 2018

The pto lever physically moves the pto in or out of lock with the rear driveshaft.

The main tractor clutch physically engages or disengages the engine to the driveshaft.

Your transmission lever moves the gears into a gear or neutral.

So.....

Your pto and your transmission are always locked together when the pto is on. If you have the pto on and are in a gear, those rear wheels and
that pto shaft are directly connected to each other. Pushing in the clutch will not change this, it only takes away the engine power.

With newer setups, live or independent pto, they added a second clutch and a second drive shaft, so the pto can indeed be separated out
differently than the transmission power shaft.

Paul

old · Feb 15, 2018

ANY tractor that does not have LIVE PTO should have an ORC on it because one never knows when you would have to stop pretty fast and you cannot get things out of gear due to pressure on the gears etc.

Rein_Quest · Feb 15, 2018

(quoted from post at 13:19:40 02/15/18) The pto lever physically moves the pto in or out of lock with the rear driveshaft.

The main tractor clutch physically engages or disengages the engine to the driveshaft.

Your transmission lever moves the gears into a gear or neutral.

So.....

Your pto and your transmission are always locked together when the pto is on. If you have the pto on and are in a gear, those rear wheels and
that pto shaft are directly connected to each other. Pushing in the clutch will not change this, it only takes away the engine power.

With newer setups, live or independent pto, they added a second clutch and a second drive shaft, so the pto can indeed be separated out
differently than the transmission power shaft.

Paul

That right there just explained what I wasn't understanding.

Thanks everyone. Buying an ORC next time I'm in the store.

old · Feb 15, 2018

Back before I knew better I ran a Ford 841S with out an ORC and a number of times almost hit a tree or fence or other such things because I could not get the PTO or Transmission out of gear so the brush hog pushed me a good 10 feet or more before I could get it stopped. Also one should not run something like a brush hog at a high rate of speed or you can tear up the hog

BushogPapa · Feb 16, 2018

Well, IF that "H" has GOOD brakes, you should have NO problem..

You can STOP that Bush-Hog (or what-ever) Immediately by closing the throttle and nailing the Brakes HARD,,

I say it gives the operator more control of his equipment..Ofcourse, we USED these everyday and thoroughly knew how to react to conditions ...

You would never even think about shifting the PTO out of gear..the lever probably would never move with a load on the PTO..

Myself, if I run up to an unknown stump, etc or if someone gets too close..I want to be able to STOP that Darned thing, not sit and WAIT for it to stop..

I know..not many agree with me anymore..I guess not as many my age are left who Operated these all day, many days in a row..

To each his own...I hope you will not need to shorten your PTO to accommodate the extra Length the ORC adds to the shaft length..

I would rather make sure the Slip-Clutch on the equipment is free to slip if an obstacle is encountered, to protect the Drive-train..

Of-course, you DO (if you have one) loosen the springs and SLIP that PTO Clutch Every season, to be SURE it will if needed, don't you..?

Rein_Quest · Feb 16, 2018

I wondered about the brakes. My grandfather had good brakes on his and I figured they'd stop that machine.

I really need to get to some of those collectors clubs because I want to meet some of the people that used this equipment when it was new.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but when tractors went to live PTO. Didn't they have a brake system when you disengage?

I suddenly feel torn on the ORC vs just maintaining the brakes.

old · Feb 16, 2018

Good brakes are good to have but most tractor your lucky if they both work and being able to hit both brake and have the same stopping power on both sides is next to impossible. Or in other words you would find your self going left or right which can also be bad. As for Live PTO yes some had PTO brakes and others did not.

Shoot Oliver had the independent live PTO very early. Not sure the exact year Oliver had that but Oliver was the first.

I've used tractor for decades and I would NEVER use a brush hog on a non live PTO tractor with out an ORC because to many things can happen out of the clear blue that can/will get you hurt or dead

hd6gtom · Feb 16, 2018

For goodness sake don't buy a cheap 1. Many people have been killed when they fail.

Rein_Quest · Feb 16, 2018

I was going to order a ORC from Steiner next order but I'm also concerned that I don't just want the thing to free spin.

Don't they have something like a clutch? Something that could both give if it hits something but offer resistance but not "locked" to the transmission?

JD Seller · Feb 16, 2018

Your asking for TWO different things. You need an over running clutch to keep the bushog from acting like a BIG flywheel and pushing your tractor around after you push the clutch in. DO not think the brakes will always stop you they will not. The brakes on an "H" where not the best to start with. The older band type would work kind of good when adjusted 100%.

Now for wanting the cutter to be able to "slip" if you hit some thing with it. That is where you need a slip clutch on the cutter. If you hit some thing that will allow the PTO slip over shearing pins or breaking some thing. A slip cultch is just clutch disks that you can adjust to only allow so much torque on the PTO drive line.

Rein_Quest · Feb 17, 2018

Guess I was hoping for both in one.

For the sake of curiosity. Say you need that implement and tractor to stop all movement as fast as possible. Is the only way to stop it to not have the ORC and just hit the kill switch? Engine braking.

old · Feb 17, 2018

Shutting the engine off while yes it will stop it sooner or latter it will not stop very fast. If you have a brush hog on the blades are one big heavy flywheel that takes time to stop spinning and that time it enough to cause big and even deadly problems.

As for the brush hog many have either a slip clutch or a shear bolt so if one hits something that is to much the clutch of shear bolt lets the PTO still spin but not the blades

D beatty · Feb 17, 2018

I had a 51 M and with an over running clutch and all I had to do was throw the PTO out of gear and could stop tractor with no problems of
it shoving me forward.

old · Feb 17, 2018

I too have done that but also had tractor where it was next to impossible to do that and when that happens your in trouble before you can think why didn't I put on an ORC

BushogPapa · Feb 17, 2018

Man, how times have Changed..now the "Gurus" have forgotten HOW to operate an older tractor/pto and are "authorities"..see my post above and LEARN.

NO PTO Brake can stop everything as fast as Good brakes and a quick response.

Havent ANY of you ever operated an AC 60 Combine, cutting soybeans..??

If you saw a rock of ANY kind going up the canvas, you did exactly what I said here, too..Hit the Clutch and Nail the brakes, to roll or slip the rock down and out..(or spend a few hours changing cylinder bars and/or Concaves..

Oh, that's ok, I know ya don't want to miss-lead an inexperienced owner into FULL Control of his/her equipment.. Get it..?

And yes ..FWIW and it aint much anymore.

D beatty · Feb 18, 2018

We farmed in the 50s- 70s (dairy) and had no large tractors with live pto or hydraulic( except for Farmall B). Our baler, forage choppers,mower,crimper,and manure spreader had over riding clutch + a slip clutch on some of them.

old · Feb 18, 2018

So what are you saying?????? Many older tractor that where not big had live PTO like the Oliver's. The B Farmall sure did not have live PTO.

old · Feb 18, 2018

That only works in theory since many of these old tractor you lucky if the brake work well if at all. Learned years ago to NEVER depend on brake even in a car and that has saved my life more then once when I have had brake go out all at once.

Texasmark1 · Feb 21, 2018

I have a Ford 2000 with the transmission driven PTO that will drive you into a fence. Problem is that with the implement going faster than
the engine, there is positive pressure on the gearbox and clutch or not (since the clutch only disengages the tranny from the engine, not
the PTO from the tranny), you can't get the shift lever to move out of gear. The external overrun clutch takes that pressure off and allows
for shifting.

I have a Branson 2400 with a tranny driven pto and the overrun clutch is built into the tractor so you don't need the external one.

old · Feb 21, 2018

I've seen a couple of tractor where the PTO handle was bent or broken due to the person trying to shift the PTO out of gear while under a load form a brush hog etc. That is why I say an ORC is a must have thing

Rein_Quest · Feb 21, 2018

Yea I think the ORC is needed but I do see the argument otherwise.

Wish there was something so that the operator was safe by not having that apply forces and also something to stop the implement. Because a free float implement isn't safe either.

old · Feb 21, 2018

Yes that is the one small problem with an ORC the machine can keep spinning but on a brush hog that is easy to take care of it you do not mind a bit of super short grass in an area by just lowing it all the way if you have 3 point. All the square balers I have used have built in ORC and that big flywheel and sit and spin for a long time when the shear bolt breaks and it can even cycle the baler for a moment or 2. Many machines do slow down and stop pretty quick other then a brush hog

PTO Overrun Coupler

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