Hobby Farm Hay

mrinehimerm

New User
So I've been batting around the idea of making hay on my property located in northeastern PA this year and would appreciate some advice before I commit fully to the venture. I decided it would be nice to try to make a little hay off my property as a supplement income. I would be planting about 10 acres of orchard grass on flat ground near a stream. My thoughts were sod from the orchard grass would prevent erosion in the event of flooding and the grass would be a little more forgiving for hay making.

I have an AC 160 that I planned to use for most of my work (cutting, raking, baling). I know the tractor is low on the HP end but I figured the weight of the tractor should help with pulling the baler. I'm planning an average price of $3/bale and an average 100 bales a cutting (more 1st, less 3rd). This would give me a total income of $9,000 per year.

Challenges I have are that I would need to buy a baler, rake, and mower/conditioner. I also work a full time job so any work I would be able to do in the fields would be after 3:30pm and weekends.

My questions to the YT community are: Is it going to be worth it in the end for me? After I figure the seed, fertilizer, diesel, and maintenance costs, and I even going to break even? Is it possible to turn out quality hay with the time I have available to farm? In my gut I feel I can make it work but I'd appreciate the wisdom of people who know more than I.
 
100 bales/acre per cutting? Plan a 100 bales per acre per yr. It all looks good on paper but you never know what Mother Nature is going to throw at you. Good luck.
 
Thanks for your input. I agree with you about mother nature and that's kind of my biggest fear. That's at least partially why I thought grass would be a good choice; won't get as tough as alfalfa if I catch it on a late cutting. I also figured that the first year of planting orchard grass, that I would probably only get one good cutting but do you really only think ~30 bales an acre? That's slightly disheartening.
 
If you're growing orchard grass,plan on cutting real early. It'll head out about Memorial day and turn to brown straw almost immediately.
 
Do you think timothy or another grass would be a better choice? I was trying to stay away from alfalfa because it would be a little less forgiving and my primary customers would be buying it as horse hay. From what I've heard from local farmers that straight grass should sell just as well as alfalfa.
 
I used to plant timothy,but Brome Grass will last longer. It needs to be cut fairly early too,but not as early as orchard grass. My problem is,there's so much orchard grass around here that it takes over after a few years. If you don't have any orchard grass,I don't think I'd plant any. You might not ever get rid of it.
 
It all makes sense to me until the part of next to a stream and flooding.....

Yea making hay is a financial risk, but you should about break even and have the fun of doing it. You will lose one year when the weather is against you. And make some another year when the stars line up. And come out even or so most years. It's worth trying.

But, doing hay in a flood plain can be much more challenging. A lot of debris washes out of a team and into the hay. Your cutting machine is going to have more repairs than normal. Your hay will be wetter, harder to dry, and might be made later than ideal some years. This will affect your $3 a bale projections; might be more like $2.50 average under those conditions.

I make hay on a wet patch of grass, -not- by a stream so I don't have to deal with the washed in junk. But it's a challenge to deal with water levels. It would be worse to be on a stream that washing in crap that wrecks the cutter, the baler, and makes a poor cutting of hay. The good part is wetter land tends to produce a lot of hay, even in minor droughts when hay prices go up - so you might get so,e positives from it too.

That will be your challenge, to deal with the occasional flooding. It will cost you some to deal with that. Repairs and making a cutting of $3 hay worth $1 is something you have to add to the plans.

I'm not trying to rain on your plans, I'd still give it a go.

Paul
 
Thanks Paul! The only experience I have with flooding is early season if we happen to get an ice damming. This past year we had no water issues but I want to make sure that I plant something with a root structure that will resist erosion from Jan/Feb floods if they come. During the normal hay season I do not expect any high water issues.
 
A lot of times we have to trade volume with quality.

That wet patch I bale that I mentioned, the grasses can be as tall as the hood of my tractor and I struggle to get a 9 foot swath through the baler, man do I get bales.... But the hay is stemmy and to seed because of the wet ground by the time I can cut it, and so the quality (price) isn't there. Boy do I get a lot of bales per acre tho - probably don't get $1.50 a bale for that stuff.

On some lighter ground if I fertilize it boy I can get some nice grass hay bales some years, wow it's $5 hay! But I only get 15-20 bales a cutting. Sigh.

Have to average it all together and see if it comes out. You won't really know until you jump,in and try. With buying the machinery and little experience, the first couple years are a learning curve, might not be positive results right out of tge gate. But buy good used machinery and you can resell it for what you put in it if it doesn't work out, you aren't out much on the machinery expenses?

I forgot to mention above, a lot of income in hay comes from having good storage to hold your crop and keep it well, and sell it when it is in demand, not when you are baling it and everyone else is selling to get rid of it too. Most years something comes up, cold spell, dry period, wet period, and there is a sudden demand for hay at better prices. That is when you want to sell out of your shed. So, you do have someplace to store hay?

Paul
 
Yup. Just be aware, either you get out there right after the flooding and pick up any wood or debris that floats in; or you are gonna spend on some repairs and down time from finding it with the mower......

I think a lot of experienced hands will go up on this deal. ;)

Paul
 
Thanks for the words of wisdom! How do you feel about discbine vs haybine given the higher potential for debris in the field?
 
I have 2 decent sized tractor sheds and barn I can store hay in so I don't foresee storage being an issue. I see what you are saying about the quality/quantity trade off which is a good point. Hopefully the fields stay dry and I don't have issues getting hay off but can't control the weather so I guess I'll see how it goes. I'm still thinking I jump into it this spring with both feet and see what I can do.
 
I have a little 10 acre hay field down the road that I started my farming adventure on. It is also a flood plain with a swampy woodlot on the west side. If water runs over the property, that area will produce poorly if on a slope. A lot of the good stuff in the soil leaches away. Down in the lower areas it will produce better, but it will dry poorly. I am going to side with rrlund on your choices. Orchard grass heads early and then gets woody. Makes a bale that will scratch you bloody. Brome is not as early and makes a thick hay. The nice thing about timothy is it heads up so late. So with your schedule you have more windows to handle it. You will not always hit the prime time to cut. I think you are going to need to take a couple days off work each year to do first cutting. It can be heavy and prime time to start is around noon. You will need every minute of a day some years to beat the rain. Good luck with it. A very hard job but I have spent some great days on the hay field.
 
I worked with a 3pt sickle mower many years, a JD sickle moco for a few years, and a 3pt disc mower for 2 years.

The disc mower makes cutting hay fun, I have to be careful not to cut more than I can bale in a day. No crimping, but man it's fun to cut hay...... You might find one in your price range, no conditioner but they cut hay fast.

Nothing wrong with a sickle moco for a few acres, certainly less investment which is where you want to start in sure. So probably this? For just grass hay a good 3pt sickle mower works, no crimping but grass hay usually dries out fine. Inexpensive and downright cheap for these 2 options.

A disc moco would take a lot of hp and is spendy compared to any other option, probably not for you early on? I'd love one, but can't justify it myself. Any I find affordable are trashed, any I'd like to pin on and run app can't afford.

Paul
 
It's easy for us to point out the negatives, and we do... Collecting money from 'horse people' is the next interesting topic.... ;)

But, lot of satisfaction in using your property, getting some spending money, and getting some exercise in summer. All this makes the rest of the question marks probably worth it. :)

If it fits you and you enjoy it, you probably can find another 10 acres in a year or two to cut in your area, and expand your business a little bit. Or custom cut and bale for some horse or beef owners that, like you, have a 5-10 acre patch of grass but not the money or equipment to do it themselves. Any of this can add to your hobby paycheck as you move forward.

Paul
 
I wonder how many times I have done a calculation like the one he has in the OP only to see it fall flat on it's face? Generally, when I look at forecasting I use the same formulas as when I was young and optimistic except now I draw a line under the whole formula and put a 3 below the line so...in this case yeah...$3000 average yearly hay sales would not be far off. I have years where my original field paid out more than $3K on the first cutting, but then always it tanks on the second. Never have bothered with a third.
 
In Ontario, 100 bales per acre of grass hay first cut is reasonable, but expect a quarter of that in any following cuts....in a good year. Grass just does not grow back as vigouruosly once cut. It is photosensitive, meaning that it responds to available sunlight; once the days become shorter, after June 21, the grass goes into a more dormant stage.Ben
 
You can get a lot of hay done in afternoons and weekends ten acres is a day of baling a 160 will make a slow going at baling though and it won't handle a discbine. Count on 75 first 30 second and third and if you get it off early maybe a fourth 10 -30 bales. fertilize between cuttings and it will yeild well timothy is a one cut usually has very little second and third unless it gets good rains and cool temps but you could look at tall fescue. It will grow for a couple cuttings. Kings agri seed has a good line up of horse hay mixes.
 

I have a bunch of suggestions but I just can't get past how you get $9,000 from three cuttings of 100 each at $3.00 per bale. I always had to make a lot more bales to make $9000 and I get a lot more for it.
 
Your work hours are the exact same as mine. We were up to 50 acres at one point and got it done. You'll be fine. Don't go into it thinking you're going to rake in the cash. Only do it if you want to. Breaking even is a good target, anything more is a bonus. There are years where you will think it's not possible to get hay dry. I've watched the weather, went and mowed all the hay down, only to see they've changed the forecast when I got back. Nothing like raking or teding the same field 3-4 times just to get it dry enough to bale knowing it's worthless when it finally does get baled.

I've sold hay in Michigan, and have found what you said. Grass hay is easier to sell. Horse people can't get enough of it. They seem to prefer Timothy or a blend here.

Your allis will be fine. My grandpa did a lot of acres with nothing but a deere 430, sickle mower,rake, and 14t baler.

It's not all bad. When everything goes right, it's one of the best feelings you can get. When everything goes wrong, you kind of look in the mirror and wonder why you mess with it.
 
Is there anyone who can rake or ted it for you when you are at work, so you can start baling when you get home? That would help. You can find a good sickle bar mower conditioner pretty reasonable, anywhere from $2,000 and under. Good side bar rake about $1,000. Two basket tedder, about $1500. Baler is going to be the tricky one, because it has to be decent or you will always be frustrated. If you can fix and maintain your own equipment, it can be profitable, but if you have to pay for very many repairs, forget it. You will also have people offer hay fields to you on shares, which is not worth it unless it is good, valuable hay. Be sure you put non-clog guards on if you run a sickle bar moco in grass hay. I'll put it this way: if it does not get rained on and you can sell all the hay, it will seem like you are making some money at the time.
 
10 acres and a full time job will keep you busy. $3 per bale will generate revenue and at least in my neck of the woods - you will sell out. Can you make top quality hay and have the equipment to reliably make money, hit or miss IMHO.

Given you are in a flood area, I would recommend a mixed grass - nothing special. Frequent cuttings and a little herbicide, along with soil sample driven lime and fertilizer should get you some very clean hay with lower expense and you may be able to hike the price too.

For a full time job (I'm in the same boat), I'd recommend a sickle mower conditioner to speed things up. Next a 2 basket tedder and a working, but cheap roll-a-bar rake. The reason I say roll-a-bar type is because they work, they are abundant and they can be set off the ground so as not to rake up as much ground trash (thinking flooding trash, dirt and rocks) as a ground driven wheel rake. IMHO - you're most valuable piece of equipment needs to be the square baler. If you can't make a square, you are cooked!

New Holland or Hesston sickle mower conditioners - make sure the rollers and wobble box on the New Holland are in good shape, rollers not peeling. Baler - New Holland or JD all the way.

Good luck,
Bill
 
Thank for the feedback Ray. I do have some family and friends that could help to rake during the day so I can bale when I get home. I feel like choosing a haybine/rake/tedder will be the easy and inexpensive part. The baler is where I start drawing question marks??? My experience with making hay in the past (relatives farm) has been with a NH 570 which is far to big and expensive for anything I plan to do. I was looking at something like a NH 276 or JD 336. Seem to be readily available for parts, fairly cheap, and easy to work on. Need to research the balers a bit more to ensure I'm matching HP/weight requirement to the tractor.

What did you mean by people offering hay fields for shares? I'm guessing you mean offer a field for use if they get first cutting and I keep what I get off 2nd.
 
Thanks Bill! Your advice is right on track with what I was thinking. That's a bit of a boost of confidence for me!
 
(quoted from post at 13:52:36 03/01/17) What am I missing here? 3 x 3 x 100 = $900, not $9000, big difference?

That is what I was asking as well and no answer, but I think that perhaps the OP left out that he is planning on 100 bales per acre.
 
They want the field cut and baled and will pay you in hay. I am doing 10 acres of alfalfa for 1/3 of the hay, but for fescue patches with weeds, you would have to get 2/3 and then it would be hard to sell the hay. One guy has 5 acres of fescue/clover and he wants it baled once per year, in the spring. Since he wants the hay I charge a rate of 1.75 per bale to mow, ted, rake, and bale small squares, dropped in the field.

I started out with a NH 273? baler I got for $300. Spent another $300 in parts and had it working. It has worked ok, but it is slow and you have to have patience to use it. Recently, I have had the opportunity to rent a newer baler on a per bale basis, and it is very nice to know that when the hay is ready, you can just go full out to get it done. If you are going to sell hay, you have to have small square bales, because they will not pay the same ton for ton in large bales. Around here, wheat straw sells for $3-4 per bale, so good hay should be worth at least $4, and for alfalfa or alfalfa mix, I try to get $5 or maybe $4 or 4.50 out of the field.
 
My original thinking was 100 bales/ acre x $3/ Bale x 3 cuttings x 10 acres = $9000. Based on feed back I think I should realistically assume I'll get about 100 bales/ acre per year instead of per cutting. Working on a learning curve here.
 

For about fifteen years I did about 45 acres, and that was down from about 95. Then the weather got so uncooperative. Always rain in the forecast but never any rain. I got tired of hay running my life. You have an advantage there with a high water table unless it rains all spring. I like orchard grass because even though it matures two weeks earlier than timothy, when it matures it keeps pushing up new leaves and the stems are only half the size of timothy stems. I sell most of mine for $5.00 picked up in the field and $5.75 delivered. Check around. You don't want to get on the bad side of your local hay cartel
 
Cover about 70 acres here once and try to get as much second as possible. I work out of town all week, but I have a friend that helps me. He will mow when the weather is good, and we will bale the hay on Saturday or Sunday depending. If I happen to be in town working, will do some after work as well.

Around here usually a 4 basket tedder will run pretty close to the price of a 2. I would look for one of those instead. Rotary rakes can be had reasonable if you look around. They are getting old enough there are quite a few around. They really help to dry the hay. Agree with getting non-clog gaurds on the haybine I started with a JD 1209 haybine with the non-clog gaurds. Still use it today. If going with a rollbar rake, get a New Holland. Have used many other brands and none compare there. Bought a cheap rotary rake and use that now. For a baler, I started with an IH 430. A lot of people will say to stay away from them, but worked fine for me. Have an inline CIH now. An older NH like a 268 on up will work good for you, as will a JD 336. You just have to look all of the equipment over good. As time goes by, and you decide you want to keep doing hay, upgrade your equipment.

Have also done the hay on shares deal. Loser in my book. Too much work to just give the hay away. Has to be something else included with that to make it even worth looking at. Such as they help or they have a barn you can use for hay storage.

Selling hay and dealing with people can be a challenge. They will try and beat you up on the price. I tell them if they can buy it cheaper elsewhere, be my guest. Have a few people I deal with and that is enough. Once you start out and get going you will see what everyone here is telling you.
 
My 80 year old baler mechanic told me this summer:

You can send a combine to the field and if it won't thresh you can blame it on the conditions. If you send a baler to the field and it won't make a bale it's always the baler! He also said that a baler is the most precisely timed and most abused piece of equipment on a farm. Everyone thinks they can adjust one.

He was the mechanic when the first 14T was sold in the area. He would get a call that it wasn't tying and go out and spend hours fixing it. It would be fine for a couple of days and then start over. It seems the old farmer thought the tails in the knots weren't just right so he would go to wrenching. Chuck's bosses were beginning to doubt he knew what he was doing. Finally he adjusted it all up and took yellow paint and hit every thread and told the farmer he would know if it had been messed with. The farmer was so mad he called Deere screaming and yelling. The baler worked perfectly and it was years before needing any repairs again.
 

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