Legume inter-seeding in wheat

DavidT1 · Dec 19, 2016

Hello,
Anyone tried to inter-seed say Red Clover into spring wheat? What options can a person do to see it? I have IH 150 hoe drills so I don't think I can seed at the same time. Thanks!

paul · Dec 19, 2016

Works good for me, but I have an old IHC drill with the alfalfa/clover boxes often called the grass boxes added on.

You could spread on with a cone seeder I suppose, run a harrow after that before the wheat comes up?

Paul

DavidT1 · Dec 19, 2016

Paul,
I had thought of seeding it first and then seed the wheat, but that would be a lot of extra fuel and work. I may look for the grass box. How does the cover crop work for not fighting with the wheat? Do you do any tillage?

coonie minnie · Dec 20, 2016

It is common to seed alfafla with oats here in WI in the spring. One way is to pull the seed tubes from the small seeder and let them fall on the ground and not into the opener. That way the oats seed gets
in deep with the opener, and the clover seed just gets covered by the packing wheels and other dirt moving around.

I often seed red clover into winter wheat in the early spring. I ususally put the N down about the time the frost is coming out, and blend the seed with the fertilizer. It does work, but there are a few
other tricks to it too.

DavidT1 · Dec 20, 2016

Coonie,
Do you think a person could broadcast Red Clover right before doing my spring disking and then seed the wheat? Have you done any testing on your wheat to see how it does with the clover versus no clover and just straight synthetic fertilizer?

paul · Dec 20, 2016

We are pretty much full tillage in this county, lot of molboard plows still working, at least a chisel plow or ripper covers nearly every acre. Very wet here, very cold, need the ground to dry out in spring.

I would be concerned running the clover first, and then working in the wheat. The clover should be real shallow, half an inch or so is all. You might be wasting a fair amount of seed too deep.

On the other hand spreading the clover after and doing no harrowing at all, if you are in dry ground I assume if you are growing wheat, the clover might not get covered enough to sprout. You end up in between either way.....

Paul

DavidT1 · Dec 20, 2016

Paul,
I didn't think of the issue of seed depth on the clover, but yes that may push it too far in. The field I am in is very wet most years and I do full tillage with moldboard in late fall to dry it enough to get into it in the spring.
I thought of broadcasting and running a spike harrow with the spikes up and see, but then I wont be able to seed the cash crop as that may push it in too much as well. My last option and possible the smart one would be to simple find grass seeders for my drill and broadcast while seeding. Lots of ideas, but not sure which is the smart one.

504 · Dec 20, 2016

Back when we had government set aside, we put wheat,clover in the fertilizer buggy (mixed at the fertilizer plant). Broadcast it all in one pass,run a disc over it lightly and called it done. Cut the wheat and the set aside was already growing.

coonie minnie · Dec 21, 2016

I think you would get it in too deep with the disk. A harrow would be better. It is best dribbling it on with the drill, as you get more accurate distribution and a more accurate rate. That is important. Legume seed is not cheap.

With the winter wheat, it is usually very competitive with the clover. The only time the clover has started to crowd the wheat is where there was a poor stand of wheat to begin with.

I use the clover as a cover. It keeps the weeds down after wheat harvest, and I've been able to credit 60-80 lbs of N for the next years corn crop. I then spray the clover the following spring, and no-till in corn. In dry summers this has been the best yielding corn around. In wet years it will be as good as anything else. Corn really likes following that clover. IN past years, this has worked out to about half the cost of commercial N. With fertilizer prices down and clover prices up, it is not the deal it once was. But we still get a nice yield bump over doing nothing.

Traditional Farmer · Dec 22, 2016

I've broadcast seed like that just before a small snowfall is in the forecast the snow and thawing/freezing will usually work the seed in some and keep birds from eating it.

4520BW · Dec 22, 2016

On winter wheat we spread it with a broadcast seeder on the 4 wheeler. Watch the weather and when its just freezing in the morning spread it and when it warms up the seed sinks in. Usually do it mid February weather depending.

Leroy · Dec 22, 2016

Drill wheat, then broadcast red clover and then if needed follow up with a light weight spike tooth harrow, even a section of chain link fence and it will help properly cover the wheat. That is what the drag chains on a drill are for. If you had the grass seed box on the drill put the grass seed in back of the seed openers so they do not cover the grass seed and then pull that spike tooth behind that. That is the way we would do oats that is spring planted. Around here it is all winter wheat so the frost seeding. And you never see a problem with the clover in the wheat, only once in a while if timothy was put in the mix would that start to show up. And for years we used the winter wheat with a frost seeding of red clover and timothy for dairy hay. You might or might not get a fall cutting of hay the year planted, normal was second year with 2 cuttings of hay, following year was normally plowed down as red clover usually does not winter over for a second year.

DavidT1 · Dec 23, 2016

Have any of you tried seeding the red clover after the spring wheat harvest in the August time frame? Did it have time to come up and is there a benefit of seeding in the fall versus in the cash crop in the spring? To all THANKS!! for the help so far!!

coonie minnie · Dec 23, 2016

I've done that, too. You won't get as much growth, but will get a more consistent stand. If there is ever a place for no-till, that is it. Working the land for summer seeding can dry out the last of the moisture. And that can be lacking the first of August!

Leroy · Dec 24, 2016

Ohio I don't think it has ever been tried but we have winter wheat, not spring wheat. August is Alfalfa month. Very little red clover grown any more.

David G · Dec 25, 2016

I really do not like red clover, it seems very invasive.

JMS/.MN · Dec 27, 2016

Red clover, like alfalfa and other small seeds, should be seeded about 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep (max). That takes a uniform seed bed, not clumpy. I"ve never seen a grain drill that had seed tubes into the openers. Always just swinging in the wind, splaying out seed in a random fashion...never in rows. Do you have access to a Brillion seeder? Can be pulled behind a drill if the same width, otherwise a separate trip. I had a Moline drill with grass seeder, and pulled cast iron packers behind. They break up clumps and push seed into the ground. Later I had a late model JD and pulled a HM rubber tired packer behind it. Straight seeding alfalfa in late summer works well at our latitude, NW of MPLS. I"ve seeded as late as mid-Sept and gotten a great stand. I would assume clover would give similar results.

Leroy · Dec 30, 2016

How can that be? You plant one spring for hay crop next year, the following it has winter killed out too much for a hay crop for that year so you just plow it up unless you have alfalfa in enough to take over or timothy or some other grass for the second year crop. Third year no red clover left. And it does not grow anyway except from seed. Only way it will reseed is if you do not harvest the crop and let it go to seed. Sounds like you are thinking of something else. Problem is keeping it alive long enough to get crop you want.

Dieselrider · Jan 3, 2017

How about broadcasting the clover on after the wheat and then going over with a cultipacker?

Tom from Ontario · Jan 20, 2017

I always had trouble with the underseeding growing up and interfering with grain harvest. Finally got to the point where I put the clover on with a spinner up to four weeks after seeding. Worked better, even with sweet clover.

Legume inter-seeding in wheat

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