Small squares in underground bunkers??

Chuckk · Oct 12, 2016

Hello!

Not sure if this is the proper place but here we go!

Been flirting with the idea of making small square balage. I lost my 1st hay crop and have to buy hay for the first time. I'm in northern Wisconsin and we had an unseasonably wet year. Only around 100 bales short for the winter but stinks to have to buy when I normally have surplus to sell. I would like to be able to put first crop into silage/balage and do hay for 2nd crop. I can't justify the cost of a bale wrapper.

Current operation is only 10 head beef and pork but plan on expanding to 25-30 beef in the spring. Maybe more in the future but would like to start small.

I have read a few articles about tightly packing unwrapped squares in underground bunkers, covering with plastic, and then adding weights. My concern is it sounds like there would be a lot of air pockets for mold to form. Has anyone done this? If you have could you share your experiences?

Thanks!
Chuck

rrlund · Oct 12, 2016

Can't speak for just putting the bales in alone,but pack them in to corn silage and you'll have some of the nicest haylage you've ever seen in your life. The corn silage will completely seal the air out of the hay.

farmerwithmutt · Oct 12, 2016

I think in England they hook old vacuum
milker pumps up to pull the air out. I'm
not sure how much you use but the Amish use
dry ice in tower silos they cap with
plastic. A friend of mine built a trench
silo placed small round bales in then broke
and scattered bales over top to seal.

craigco · Oct 13, 2016

Seems like I saw a video on you tube of
farmers in England doing that. The
bales were a foot or so long because
they were heavy and easier for the
farmer to stomp in tight.

Chuckk · Oct 13, 2016

Wow Thanks for the info! I didn't know about England or the Amish. We have some Mennonite families in the area maybe I'll get
there opinion on the matter.

The corn silage sounds like a great idea and I've been thinking about doing a little corn silage to supplement the hogs. Feed
mill prices cutting a little deeper than I care for!

No kidding about the heavy bales. Ran some wet hay just to see if the baler would do it; it did but holy cow they get heavy! I
didn't have a scale but they felt like 90 +, normally I shoot for a 60lb bale.

Time for more studying, Thanks again!

Chuck

farmerwithmutt · Oct 13, 2016

A friend has a small older round baler
that's all he uses. For silage he puts them
in a trench for dry just bales. Sometimes
I've seen guys use dry round bales to form
the outside of a trench then drop hay
inside. Have you ever checked into
rotational grazing?

Chuckk · Oct 14, 2016

I have seen where they use dry bales to make a bunker. I'm thinking about cutting into a steep bank close to were the cattle
will be overwintered.

I'm very familiar with rotational grazing and firmly believe it is the only sustainable way to go! (at least for me) I have seen
the magic of renovating old pastures that haven't seen a hoof in many years by mob grazing followed by periods of rest. After a
couple of rotations weeds go down grasses and clovers come up. If there is anything left after a move I run over it with a brush
hog to keep weeds in check. After a year or two noxious weeds are all but eliminated.

The problem I have is due to my location and the amount of snow I get (Northern WI, lake effect snowfalls) Even with the best
rotational management I still have to stock pile for the winter. On the plus side I have well drained soil so I can turn them
out sooner than most in the spring with out worrying about tearing up fields.

Thanks!
Chuck

Brown Swiss · Oct 14, 2016

Farmerwithmutt when I was growing up in my neck of the woods there was no one rotational grazing, I fist heard of it through a teacher of mine at River Ridge, he was an ag teacher at Iowa Grant and has been grazing his Fennimore farm for many years, I don't know if you know him, Wayne Treddinnick? He grew up not far from you around a town called Jonesdale. I was just wondering if you knew of him or not, he is the guy that got me interested in grazing, now in Crawford county there are several guys doing it, it seems to be a good fit for that land.

cjd12000 · Oct 14, 2016

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgFhly4b59s its been done.
Looks like a lot of work though. I think this is the
video that was referenced below and it was the first
thing I saw after reading your post but personally get a
applicator and proponic acid and bale up to thirty
percent and you will be happier and have all the hay you
need.

farmerwithmutt · Oct 14, 2016

Name sounds familiar . Have you been on any pasture walks ? Iowa county with gene has a lot several years ago I had one there a nice idea to get tips. I started in 1988 with strip grazing and always used that form. I was getting over 100 lbs of milk from Holstein and the jerseys would produce good to and not feeding much corn. It's not only good for the land and cattle but if you stop and think how much less you use your harvesting equipment a piece of machinery will last a lot longer. Funny thing my aunt had a setup on her farm that dated to back in about 1930 that was rotational what she had was 2 pastures that were grazed of till after first crop than four small fields were added in on second crop then she grazed everything on third. Because she had the hay put up on shares she got the best parts for herself and the majority of the hay and all she had for equipment was a 8 n ford and spreader . The only regret I have on grazing is I didn't start it sooner. Would you like information on pasture walks I recently got some information. Sadly for me the cattle are gone so I'm not grazing but I like to see people try it.

Brown Swiss · Oct 14, 2016

I have not been on a pasture walk yet, have the Great Rivers Grazers up in Crawford county I always wanted to go to, that would be contacting Vance Haugen at Pdc and getting the info from him. Crawford County is only a few miles north of me. My only problem is I have a 74 year old father who owns the farms yet and he is old school conventional farming and doesn't know change can be a good thing!

farmerwithmutt · Oct 14, 2016

I had the same problem but one thing it is actually his way of farming with new technology. Pasture was the main stay for years the only thing different is the wiring. Contact gene Schafer In iowa county he can help also try the magazine grass farmer. I have a friend that's now grass only organic jerseys and he's getting over 30 dollars a hundred for milk it's a great way to stay in business .

coonie minnie · Oct 15, 2016

I have a "Farm Quarterly" magazine here that features that... in 1957! The neighbor who shared it with me wondered how they could get the baler to tie in wet hay. Also, it appeared they put a lot of loose
hay in the cracks.

If you tried this, I would recommend you use a good innoculant applied at the baler to aid fermentation. And then seal very tightly.

Chuckk · Oct 15, 2016

cjd12000 Thanks for the video link. Looked exactly what the article I read was talking about. Lol only difference is the article was passing it on like it was a "new" idea. Funny how people forget the past and then "reinvent the wheel".

Currently my operation is small so the additional work dosen't worry me. I figured I'm already stacking bales in the hay shed, why not in a trench? Besides cutting the trench only additional labor would be covering it.

I'm trying to stay as close to organic as possible (My customers demand it!) so the acid wouldn't work for me. The only organic acid preservative approved for hay that I am aware of is vinegar. From what I read you would have to use twice as much to be only half as effective. Can't speak to this since I haven't done it and only read a few articles from un proven sources. Would be interesting if there was a study done on it.

Thanks!
Chuck

coonie minnie · Oct 15, 2016

What I suggested wasn't acid... innoculant is actually used for making silage. It is bacteria that help the feed ferment quickly. You will get a lot faster
fermentation, with less heat and spoilage. Unless you are "certified organic," I'd use it. There may be "organic" innoculant out there, too, but expect to pay more.

Chuckk · Oct 15, 2016

I'll have to check into that. I'm not organic certified yet but that is the goal. I'm to the point now where I can apply and wait for the inspection.

Thanks!
Chuck

farmerwithmutt · Oct 15, 2016

Agri king has an organic preservatives
approved for use. They also have a pro
biotic that you can use on calves called
tri lution. It does wonders some people
take it themselves.

cjd12000 · Oct 15, 2016

Did not know the organic was your goal but your welcome
on the video I saw it on a talk a while ago and had to
look it back up.

rrlund · Oct 16, 2016

I think what you're gonna want to do is use enough plastic so you can overlap it on the bottom,put the bales on the plastic,then bring it right up over so at least one side will lap all the way over to the other side so that it's completely sealed in,even if you have a concrete floor.

Al Baker(pumpman) · Oct 16, 2016

I have a neighbor who showed me pics of how they did it in France. They did it with large squares, but I think it could be the same. They stacked the hay on the ground covered with plastic. After so many wet bales they pulled the plastic over the bales like wrapping a burrito. The next group of bales, maybe tomorrows hay was stacked tight against yesterdays, and wrapped again, but with separate plastic, The whole sabang was wrapped with a cover plastic. Neighbor said when they need feed they would remove some of the tires off the cover. Then unwrap one burrito and remove all off those bales. That way air wasnt allowed to get to just those few bales. They said it worked well for them over there. Not sure why they dont do that here. They do the wet round bale thing now.

Chuckk · Oct 18, 2016

I like the idea of wrapping the bottoms around to the top. I would not want to put the bales directly on dirt!

Al Baker(pumpman), sounds like a good idea. Seams heavy on plastic use but would be a good idea to keep it from going bad as you advance into the bunker.

Funny story, I was explaining the wet bales idea to my Dad and he about came unglued! He has witnessed barn fires caused by green hay so he was understandably very reluctant to the idea of making green hay bales! I had to explain the fermentation/pickling effect on sealed vs open air storage process to him. His background stems from small scale farming where silage/haylage was reserved for large scale operations. LOL still kinda hesitant even after showing him several articles on haylage. Whats that saying about old dogs and new tricks??

Al Baker(pumpman) · Oct 18, 2016

I have thought about it, but cant bring myself to over work my baler pushing wet hay through it. This thing cost me more than I would like to have to replace. If you do it make sure you use plastic twine. Wire would rust bad, and sisal will rot.

Dieselrider · Oct 19, 2016

Would this really be more efficient/ cost effective than renting a round baler and wrapper?

Ian Beale · Oct 20, 2016

FYI

http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/0silbale.htm

Most livestock are fed indoors during the winter. A lot on silage is made in above ground concrete bunkers sealed with plastic.

Huge yields - IIRC around 10000 kg/ha dry matter.

Also IIRC phosphoric acid was used as a starter but it was imported. Found that sulphuric acid (local production) was cheaper but harder on machinery

Small squares in underground bunkers??

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