Small Farm Questions

Tim23

Member
I've been hanging out on the Ford boards for a while, and after reading a little decided I would post over here for some advice. I've been growing a small garden for a few years, with the last two focusing mainly on sweet corn. I have about 1.5ac that is cleared to work but have only been using a small corner of it. I have a good running Ford 8N and hopefully by spring an 850 that should also make a good worker. Plow, disc, one row cultivator, brush hog. This year my peaches and cream got off to a slow start but did ok in the end. After I mowed down the stalks and turned them under I disked the ground up for a few months and then planted Marshal Rye. I also tried plowing for the first time this year and lets just say that I haven't quite mastered it yet. I did however manage to turn under a little sod that I hope to plant this spring and approx. triple my planting space. I've been thinking I would like to try some field corn along with my sweet corn. I know I will need to plant at different times to avoid cross pollinating. I would like to be able to feed the chickens and my wife has been wanting a pig for several years now. I was thinking corn next year and pig the year following. Also I watched some youtube vids about making your own cornmeal.

Is there a variety of field corn that is suited for meal and feed? I've grown corn in the same spot for several years. Should I plant something different there this spring? I know ppl plant soy in rotation with corn but I honestly don't know what I would do with it. If I were to plant soy just to enrich the soil can I plow the seed under without too much volunteer action the following year? I don't mind using chem fertilizer, but I would like to do what I can to improve the soil. Possibly some other legume? I've also been wanting to plant some potatoes. Don't know how to work all that in.
I mostly do all of this as just a hobby. If I can turn around and give away some corn or maybe sell and ear or two then that's great, but I know what I'm doing is not terribly efficient. I'm probably gonna see about getting one of those push planters before spring if anyone has any input on that. Also keep in mind that I did not grow up with a family garden. No one taught me anything about keeping up a tractor or how or when to plant ect. There may be really basic points that I'm missing that I have just got away without knowing.
 
It might be too late this year, but you could plant crimson clover to plow under in lieu of soy. Plant that in the fall. Also rye will build up organic matter if plowed down in the spring.

I have one of those push planters. Does a fair job on corn and green beans. I planted food plots with mine in addition to my garden. They are hard to push in real soft soil. If you plant field corn, you could hand pick and sell to others raising chickens or other animals. A lot of work, hand picking.

Keep an eye out for auctions and get implements as you can. Good luck.

Larry
 
Concerning your corn questions, you have to be careful about varieties too close together and getting cross pollination of your sweet corn with non sweet corn. I would consider planting all sweet corn and what you don't pick fresh could be allowed to dry down and harvested for animal feed or make meal.Concerning implements, if you come across an old potato planter (horse draw stuff will pull behind a tractor) or a old 2 row planter you can often get that stuff in working order for not much money.I plant potatoes in my garden with a one row potato planter, hill them with a horse drawn hiller an dig them with a horse drawn digger, all pulled with a tractor.
 
Crops remove P and K from the soil, and there is no plant that
'makes' those to return to the soil.

Some manure or commercial fertilizer is needed to add maybe
about 50lbs of each a year back to your soil. If you don't, over
time the soil runs down and then suddenly the weeds get
strong, the crops get weak, and it takes a lot of effort to rebuild
the soil.

You can use legumes to get N, it just takes time that way. It is
a tad easier to get cover crops like clover to work if you are
further south, I'm in Minnesota so very little extra time for such
to grow.

Paul
 
Given that you have more space than you are actively cropping, you can get into cover crops that you grow during the growing season, along with crop rotation. Winter rye is good for an over the winter cover crop on all the plots, unless you get into garlic and have crop planted over the winter. You might set up six 1/4 acre plots and have anywhere from one to 4 of them in cover crops while growing things on two to five of them. Aside from a wide variety of legumes (alfalfa, vetch, field peas, clovers...) there are things like "tillage radish" that grows long deep roots and helps subsoil structure, and buckwheat that shades out weeds and makes a lot of organic material.

If you can find a source of manure, great - if it's free, better yet (though it's never totally free, unless they haul it to you.) It may bring some weed seeds.

I agree with Charlie that your best approach to corn is more sweet corn, and let it "go by" to get your "field corn" from the same plant - while they are somewhat different, they really are not that much different, and it's difficult to predict what will happen if the wind blows hard from the wrong direction at the wrong time...

If it's all about the tractoring you may not care to, but if it's some what about food, I also suggest setting aside part of the space for semi-permanent things like raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, strawberries, asparagus and perhaps some actual trees - apple, peach, pear, plum, apricot, cherry...
 
No need to worry about cross pollination if you get seed that has different day maturity.

I plant 75 day sweet corn and 105 to 110 day field corn the same day side by side. I have been doing it this way for years and never any crossing.

You could go as low as 90 day corn and still be okay. I believe peaches and cream is 65 to 70 day sweet corn so some 85 day field corn may even be fine..

Gary
 
Sounds like you got plenty of space. I would have a patch of sweet corn in one spot for a couple years, and then just move it over to a different spot for a couple, and so on. I wouldn't mess with field corn on that small of an area. I would do something else garden related. Sell what you raise and buy any field corn that you want and you will be way further ahead. One thing you do not want to do is go corn, potatoes, corn for rotation in the same spot because of root warm. Need something else in the rotation (whatever you would like), and I personally wouldn't do field corn.
 
Thanks for the replies. I hadnt considered using my extra sweet corn as field corn. Ive never heard of anyone doing that but I guess it makes since for what I am trying to do. This year I bought way too much seed, so I probably have enough to do twice what i did this year in the freezer. I would really like to get into saving my own seed. My understanding is i cannot do that with a hybrid like peaches and cream. Is there an heirloom variety or OP that would be better suited to a one corn crop does all setup? We like peaches and cream, but it makes a small plant. It doesn't compete well with weeds either. Part of my problem i think was my row spacing. I took advice from a friend and used the tractor tires as my row space. Down and back following the outside track each time then plant in the tracks. It worked out really well except it gave the weeds a lot of room and kept me busy with the hoe.
As far as cover crops go winter rye is the only thing i have experience with. I plan to mow it down and turn it under in the spring. Then i need to get my soil tested and see what i will need to add. It seems like a waste to brodcast spread fertilizer. Would i be better off with a planter that put it down with the seed or should i brodcast the entire area? I do need to find a source of manure, but a question i have about that is how to spread. Ive looked at wagons, and would like to do a larger area in the future where i would probably have to have one, but for now should i just be slinging it out with a shovel or is that impractical?
Ecnerwal, i have thought of doing exactly that. I have more room than i use right now, i could rotate crops on micro fields. If i open up new ground in the spring would the buckwheat be a good crop to kill out the weeds for the first year? I have also thought about fruit trees. I have a fig planted but i cut it down and it came back with a fork right at the base :oops: We have plenty of wild black berries that go to the birds and bugs every year, but i have thought about moving some of them to a trelace. There is a smaller round berry that we have always called a black raspberry that is much sweeter that i would use.
Besides a planter, what implements could i use? I have a box blade and subsoier. I think all i need is the blade to turn the subsoiler into a potato plow. What should i be on the look out for? Thanks for all the advice. I do what i do mostly for the enjoyment of tractoring around, but its real nice to be sucessful at harvest time too.
 
With 1.5 acres cleared I would fence that off into three 1/2
acre gardens. I would plant 1/2 acre of sweet corn. 1/2 acre of
general garden produce and run your critters on the 3rd half.

Build a good wire mesh fence that will hold in the
pigs,chickens goats,sheep, dexter cows etc.

When the sweet corn is done open the gate and run the
livestock in. And rotate corn to another 1/2 acre next year.

It doesn't need to be "field" corn. We plant sweet corn and
whatever we don't eat or freeze we feed fresh on the cob to
the chickens. When it dries on the stalk. I'll hand pick it, run it
through an old hand crank sheller and feed it to the chickens.

I'm on 7 acres with about 1/2 acre garden that produces way
more than my wife and I can eat, can, and give away. I feed
out a calves and hogs as we need the meat. I feed all
livestock a balanced ration but also everything out of the
garden. It really cuts back on the amount of feed I have to
buy. Think outside the box on this. I plant far more beans of
various kinds than we can use. I pull the plant and all, takes
just a few minute to fill a wash tub, dump it directly in the pen.
Hogs will eat all the squashes you give them.

It's not practical for me to produce my own feed. I found a local
mill that will grind a mixed ration for $360/ton. IF I ever get
into the farmers market business I could produce & sell far
more vegetables than what the corn would be worth.
 
(quoted from post at 21:36:04 11/15/14) used the tractor tires as my row space. Down and back following the outside track each time then plant in the tracks. It worked out really well except it gave the weeds a lot of room and kept me busy with the hoe...

...for now should i just be slinging it out with a shovel or is that impractical?

...If i open up new ground in the spring would the buckwheat be a good crop to kill out the weeds for the first year?

You planted corn IN the tire tracks? I've never seen it done that way and I've always understood that one should avoid compaction in the immediate root zone as much as is practical. If cultivating with the tractor you do need to use "tractor-related-spacing" but the crop does not go in the tire tracks, and you generally want more than one row of corn per tractor width. Since corn is wind pollinated it does better in a block, and if it can shade out the weeds for you, that's less work weeding for you. If not sizing to a tractor planting or cultivating scheme (which tend to lock you into particular row spacings pretty rigidly), aim for being able to take a wheelbarrow down the rows, but not a lot more. I'm not familiar with a one-row cultivator, but I suppose it might work on a "two rows per tractor-width" scheme where you cultivate one in one direction and the other the the other way in the same tracks? If and only if it locks you into one row per tractor would I do that wide of a spacing, and then it would obviously not be in the tire tracks, or you'd be driving on the crop.

A determined man with a shovel (and/or fork) can move a lot of manure. Won't need a gym membership, either. A dump trailer might be more generally useful for your scale of operations than a dedicated spreader, and still be able to help with the process. Your box blade might be of use in distributing piles dumped.

Buckwheat is a good smother crop to do in weeds, but you generally don't want to leave it all summer - you want to turn it under before it sets seed. You can then plant another cover crop if you don't have a crop ready to go in there.
I'm thinking spring-tooth or spike-tooth harrow when I look at your equipment list - an old bedspring or chain-link fence section can also act as a drag to smooth things out. Be careful of disc harrows - not only to they have more maintenance needs with bearings, but they can also do a great job of compacting the soil (have said folks with considerably more experience than me.)
 
Tim23;

With my push seeder, I'm probably on less than 24" rows. I plant 26" with my two-row planter but mostly because my tractor tires are 52". I plant food plots, usually less then a half acre. I cultivated once and ran a tiller between the rows once. Corn is pretty clean as far as weeds. My only goof was I planted too close in the row; I got my sprockets reversed. Still got a good stand, just small ears. But since it's just for critters, it doesn't really matter. Check your local CL for a planter.

Larry
 
I plant a 1 acre garden that is sectioned into (4) 1/4 acre plots.
Makes it easy to plan your crop rotation this way.
My list of useful equipment includes:
Ford 861 with 2 bottom plow & York rake.
Farmall Super A with cultivators, hillers and potato plow.
IH 582 garden tractor with tiller. Brinly 1row seeder. Just got
the seeder and didn't get to try it out this year.
Earthway push seeder. Works fair. Plants beans and corn
good but small seeds it plants heavy. Still better than dropping
seeds by hand.

In the fall I remove all my plants with the rake to help prevent
disease and compost it. I then plow,disc once or twice, then
spread manure (by hand) and disc again. Then plant crimson
red clover and cereal rye mix for my cover crop.
In spring I plow,disc and till. Soil test each plot and adjust to
the crops being planted. The biggest thing I have learned is 1
row of properly weeded and fertilized vegetable will out
produce 2 rows that we're not maintained. With that said I
plant all my rows wide enough apart to cultivate with the
Super A or get the 582 with the tiller between them. I band
fertilize each row as needed with manure and compost from
the previous year. When my sweet corn is 12" or so I band the
center of the rows with hot litter from the chicken coops and
cultivate. It works great. Sweet corn is planted 30" rows. If you
like potatoes give them a try.
Easy to grow but if you plant a lot it can be a lot of work if your
working them by hand. This is where a cultivison tractor like
the Super A makes gardening enjoyable. I read somewhere
recently not to plant potatoes behind corn. Never heard that
before but may be true as my 1200' behind corn this year was
a total bust. I learned by trial and error and this year I realized I
still have a lot to learn. It a great feeling when every dish on
the table is something you produced.
 
Dean, I would love rotate all that with the critters as said. Problem is the property is restricted and I can't have any split hooved animals on it. I have another 10.5ac behind that with no restrictions, but it's all wooded.

Ecnerwal, yeah I didn't really consider that I was compacting the soil doing it that way. To be clear, I did trench and recover the seed and it was only driven on to mark the rows. Still though, I see your point. I'm gonna try to figure out how I can get two rows under the tractor and use my one row cultivator on them.
 

Nothing wrong with excess sweet corn for livestock feed. I have a hand grinder and grind open pollinated corn for meal. Very tasty. However, a long time ago I ground some dried sweet corn as an experiment and found it did not make very good corn meal and especially did not make good grits.

KEH
 
30 or 38 inch spacing is conmmon for corn between rows. You
should be able to put 2 rows under the tractor.

With soybeans you can plant into a tire track most of the time.
Corn is fussy, don't do that with corn.

Corn grows up 4 leaves high and then stops growing for a
couple weeks. Actually those 4 leaves gather sunlight, and the
plant is real busy growing the root. You really really don't want
any weeds competing with the corn in this period. It is critical.
Hoe or cultivate like crazy during this period! When the corn
gets its 6th leaf, it will start growing like crazy, the roots are
nicely developed then, and weeds won't be as big a problem
any more. But early on, it is real critical to keep the weeds
much shorter than the corn, or the corn gets confused and
stops feeding its root....

Fertilizer is part science, part art. Broadcast will work fine for
you. P and K sorta tend to break down over time and are
available some now, some later to your plants. I figure I'm
putting on what the plant will use this year; but likely the corn
is using mostly P and K that was already in the ground, and
what I apply this year might get used up over the next 5 years
as it breaks down. This is why its bad to deplete your soil,
takes time to build t back up and get it breaking down for the
crops.

Legumes like soybeans, alfalfa, peas, beans, fix nitrogen in
the ground and will leave some left over for corn the following
year. So they are good crops to rotate with corn. Corn is a
grass, so rye or oats or buckwheat build organic matter, but
they are similar to corn, not complementary. Its nice to rotate
to complementary crops.

Paul
 
Tim, as Paul stated, there is no crop that can produce P and K like legumes add nitrogen from the air. However, there are some cover crops that have long roots that can access P and K that have moved too low in the soil profile, or have become chemically locked up. These nutrients are taken up by the root system, and become available to future crops. Examples of this are buckwheat, which is known as a phosphorus pump, and mammoth clover, which has roots as long as 10 feet which can reclaim nutrients that would otherwise be lost. It is best to till in these cover crops as a green manure, to incorporate the nutrients in the part of soil profile that will be accessible to future crops.
 

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