I am wanting to turn most of my hay ground into alfalfa this fall with organic notil. I think I have only two options. Option 1 plant sorgum sudan into it take a couple of cuttings on third cutting roll it and put a match to it and plant it while its still smoking. or option 2 plant the sorgum sudan, take a cutting and bale it cut second crop and let it lay and then roll whats there of the third crop and try to plant into it. What do you think?
- Thread starter Animal
- Start date
redforlife
Well-known Member
One year I planted oats. Harvested the oats and baled the oat straw. Then worked ground and planted alfalfa. Worked out pretty good. Planted alfalfa in the spring one year. Didn't work so good. Basicly didn't get any hay at all that first year, but it was a really dry year. I was really disappointed. Should of atleast got a cutting or two if it would of just rained. Another idea- I heard of a guy planting oats and alfalfa at the same time. He puts the oats up for hay somehwere around the milk stage, and lets the alfalfa take over from there. He claims he has had luck doing that, but I have never tried it. I am not to big on oat hay either though.
I have used both the oats and sudangrass and had great luck with both. Easily does as good of job if not better then herbicide burndown. if doing a fall seeding then I would roll/crimp right? Otherwise tilliage because the oats and sudangrass come up very strong after second cutting. - or are you thinking of a spring no-till the following year? I gotta give ya a call, I have a ton of questions and updates for ya.
I understand the oats comments, that might work. You can mow oats early before the flag leaf and it will regrow, mow it after the heads are almost appearing and it won't regrow much at all. It also slows down on regrowth, really only will one time to any amount. That seems comparable with a fall seeding of alfalfa.
Not familiar with sorghum Sudan so no idea how they behave, seems like that is a much fuller crop, if it regrows or smothers the new alfalfa planting?
Here you can plant alfalfa in early spring (now) or in September when the fall showers come (except the last 3 years), doesn't work well other times of the year when it is too hot or too close to winter. The spring planting is best with a nurse crop, a 2/3 rate of oats.
Around here we do full tillage, just too wet and cold to get by without, I understand in other climates fitting in notill has a lot of benefits.
Not much help to you.
Paul
Not familiar with sorghum Sudan so no idea how they behave, seems like that is a much fuller crop, if it regrows or smothers the new alfalfa planting?
Here you can plant alfalfa in early spring (now) or in September when the fall showers come (except the last 3 years), doesn't work well other times of the year when it is too hot or too close to winter. The spring planting is best with a nurse crop, a 2/3 rate of oats.
Around here we do full tillage, just too wet and cold to get by without, I understand in other climates fitting in notill has a lot of benefits.
Not much help to you.
Paul
farmer steve
Member
Depends on your seeder for alfalfa but I think you"d have a hard time properly packing the soil after leaving all that forage on the ground from the sorghum sudan. Also you may want to run a soil test before trying to burn your final cutting of sorghum x. the burning will create a base condition on the ph scale and could cause issues if your soil is already overly base. If it"s too acidic then the burning would be a good idea and would remove the plant matter so you don"t have issues planting. Personally I would hay the sorghum sudan on the 3rd cutting but leave the cutting height high. The height will help dry down the hay and will help hold some snow over the winter to provide the alfala some ground cover. A shot of manure after your final cutting/haying this fall would also help since alfalfa likes potasium and phosphorus.
randallinMo
Member
You're going to need a REALLY GOOD no-til planter to plant through all that sudan grass you'll have laying on top. Trying to burn it off makes NO sense....as it will takes "weeks" for it to dry down enough to burn worth a hoot. 'And why destroy all that organic matter??
I"m not here to debate the "organic" method of stand establishment. To each his own. But, you seem to be needing to get rid of fescue...assuming you're going to no-til the sudan grass into the existing fescue. You'll basicly only get one cutting of the sudan grass. I would "heartly" recommend you simply spray the fescue with roundup, wait 10 days and spray it again....then no-till your alfalfa. I have successfully done this and got three "good" cuttings of alfalfa the seedling year. I predict you'll have less than a 25% chance of getting a good stand of alfalfa trying to seed into all that sudan grass trash/cover. 'Just my thoughts. RIght now is the absolute perfect time to spray fescue. Alfalfa seeded the middle of May is quite alright also.
I"m not here to debate the "organic" method of stand establishment. To each his own. But, you seem to be needing to get rid of fescue...assuming you're going to no-til the sudan grass into the existing fescue. You'll basicly only get one cutting of the sudan grass. I would "heartly" recommend you simply spray the fescue with roundup, wait 10 days and spray it again....then no-till your alfalfa. I have successfully done this and got three "good" cuttings of alfalfa the seedling year. I predict you'll have less than a 25% chance of getting a good stand of alfalfa trying to seed into all that sudan grass trash/cover. 'Just my thoughts. RIght now is the absolute perfect time to spray fescue. Alfalfa seeded the middle of May is quite alright also.
He's organic, or non-spray anyhow, so has to work out other options.
Doing it as notill as well makes it a real challenge, but farmers like challenges.
I would be concerned about how the alfalfa is going to come through if the weeds can't, and also if the grass will actually die and not use up all the moisture, but those things need to be matched locally to the conditions at hand.
Paul
Doing it as notill as well makes it a real challenge, but farmers like challenges.
I would be concerned about how the alfalfa is going to come through if the weeds can't, and also if the grass will actually die and not use up all the moisture, but those things need to be matched locally to the conditions at hand.
Paul
randallinMo
Member
Paul, you're correct. I too wondered how the alfalfa could come up through all that residue that was "supposed" to be for "weed suppression". I have "unsuccessfully" no-tilled alfalfa into fescue that was literally eaten down into the ground in the spring. 'Just too much competition when the fescue starts growing. I probably ended up with a 20% stand of alfalfa. 'Still enough to improve the quality of the grass stand. But a disappointment to me.
You said, "Farmers like challenges"......well, Animal has one with this endeavor. It just might work for him.
You said, "Farmers like challenges"......well, Animal has one with this endeavor. It just might work for him.
farmerwithmutt
Well-known Member
I have planted sorgum and grazed it off it was taller then the cattle when i turned them in. when they finished there was nothing left i thought they wouldnt eat what the knocked down but they did . after that you can no till the ground was bare and loose enough to plant in
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