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Discussion Forum

Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow

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johndeeregreen

08-05-2012 06:55:22
204.12.178.100



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I've always moldboard plowed everything, corn stalks, soybean stubble, wheat stubble. Everyone is going to chisel plows now, are they better for breaking up the ground? I've always thought that moldboard plowing in the fall was the best. Ground always seems loose in the spring. Moldboard plowing does take some time, how much faster is a chisel plow? Right now I pull 4x18's with a JD 4440, I can average a little over 3 acres an hour. Whats the biggest chisel plow I could handle? 7 shank? ground is mostly clay, but not real bad, but do have some lighter soils. How many acres an hour could I do with a chisel plow?

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johndeeregreen

08-08-2012 04:31:11
74.85.202.233



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
Forgot to say, Nice pics!



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johndeeregreen

08-08-2012 04:29:53
74.85.202.233



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
Erosion really isn't a problem here. Around here some chisel and some moldboard, more chisel though. Around here the people that moldboard seem to have better crops the following year. Our land is always moldboard plowed and it dries just as fast as the chisel plowed land around us.



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johndeeregreen

08-07-2012 11:06:52
74.85.202.233



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
I guess what I'll do now is, moldboard plow the cornstalks, and chisel plow the soybean stubble and wheat stubble. I rotate the crops every year so one year is would be moldboard plowed then the next year it would be chisel plowed



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glennster

08-07-2012 14:43:07
75.57.143.173



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-07-2012 11:06:52  
like the other guys said, lot of variables. what are the other farmers doing in your area? if you have a lot of wind and water erosion, i wouldnt moldboard. i do corn and soybeans conventional tillage, disk chisel in the fall and hit it with the field cultivator in the spring. how deep you plow/chisel also, watch your field tile depth. lot of iowa guys run subsoilers with moleballs. my neighbor pretty much no -tills, but after8 years or so, the ground got pretty compacted. (combines and grain carts helped to pack it good) 2 years ago i helped him v-rip in the fall(he ran the stalk chopper, i followed pulling the v-ripper.) really helped a lot. ran the ripper about 15 inches with the winged points. it loosens the soil in the fall to get water down deep but leaves a lot of trash on the surface to slow erosion. heres a couple pics of the ripper in corn. 5 shank dmi on a 7060 allis. really made her snort in some spots!!


Photobucket

Photobucket

the allis is about 160 hp.

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johndeeregreen

08-06-2012 18:41:32
74.85.202.205



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to jstalk, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  


IH 720



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Scott 730

08-06-2012 16:39:50
75.168.167.84



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to paul, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
What model of plow, please?



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johndeeregreen

08-06-2012 15:21:58
74.85.202.205



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
Yes plowing 12'' is no problem at all. I'm debating weather or not to plow deeper this year. I don't want to plow too deep though and bring up clay but deep enough to really break up the ground. Although the crops are looking pretty dang good for the summer we've had



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JohnDeereGreen

08-06-2012 11:44:27
74.85.202.205



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
Few more questions,
How deep do most guys chisel plow? I moldboard plow at least 12"". How can a moldboard plow be more likely to cause a plow pan than a chisel plow IF both are going down the same depth?
I don"t see how that no till system works, around here you"d have to chisel/ moldboard to break that ground up, it would be like cement here.



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JMS/.MN

08-07-2012 08:40:20
209.237.107.155



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to JohnDeereGreen, 08-06-2012 11:44:27  
Moldboard plow- puts pressure on the entire ground surface under the plowshare. Chisel plow- only under the point of the chisel tooth. Plowing deeper continuously just puts the plowsole layer deeper.



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MF Poor

08-06-2012 16:37:17
50.96.253.180



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to JohnDeereGreen, 08-06-2012 11:44:27  
With no till, you rely on freeze/thaw (heaving) and earth worms to rebuild soil structure. It really works...really. When we plowed and disced years ago, we would have "concrete" by the following year. 2 or 3 years without tillage, and I can literally dig down deeper than we ever plowed and find nice mellow soil structure. 20+ years and the ground absorbs rain like a sponge, is mellow, and it's more productive. No tilled ground doesn't suffer from the same compaction woes as ground that's frequently worked. We don't need as much weight on the tractor since we aren't doing tillage, and we make quite a few less pass's across the fields, compaction in minimalized even further.

With any tillage tool, you create layers where soil density changes at the depth you run them. Corn in particular will root to that depth, then start spreading parallel with the surface. The roots simply take the path of least resistance. With no till, you don't have that change in density. Crops will continue to root deeper. That's a major + in drought conditions.

Not all soil works as well, and not all climates support no tilling. But make a commitment to the process and it definately works. Do it right and yields INCREASE, fuel cost DECREASES, time and equipment cost drops, and soil stays where it's supposed to be. With the savings in time, we farm 3 times the ground now as we did in the "old days". And that's with smaller tractors (that use WAY less fuel)

When I first started no tilling, I had my doubts. First year, most doubts were removed. By year 2 or 3, I sent my tillage tools to the sale barn. You couldn't pay me to spend hour upon hour dragging a plow around these days.

Google "plow pan" and get a detailed explaination of why moldboard plows create a compaction layer. That's the biggest single reason why moldboard plows fell from popularity years ago. Still some instances where they have a niche.

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MFPoor

08-07-2012 03:08:03
72.4.0.230



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to MF Poor, 08-06-2012 16:37:17  
More no till than conventional tillage in major corn and soy bean producing states for quite some time now. In general, once a farmer tries no tilling, they don't revert to old ways. Higher profits, higher return on investment, more productivity, and less waiting on "perfect conditions" seem to be reason enough.

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MFPoor

08-07-2012 02:57:25
72.4.0.230



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to MF Poor, 08-06-2012 16:37:17  
Here's a study done by Iowa State Univ. on no till corn/soybeans.



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MFPoor

08-07-2012 02:54:16
72.4.0.230



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to MF Poor, 08-06-2012 16:37:17  
Here's a well documented study on no till wheat.



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jackinok

08-06-2012 12:53:41
162.58.82.136



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to JohnDeereGreen, 08-06-2012 11:44:27  
how it works is anything you drag across the ground (or through it) compacts it. it does it on a chisel also but since the points are very narrow it does it on a much smaller scale.the bottoms of a moldboard plow theoreticaly slide on the bottom of the furrow.since its lifting as well as turning it simply pushes down on the soil beneath compacting it. some ground is bad about this other soil will never get a hardpan.your moldboard plowing 12" deep?wow, i cant get that deep here for sure with my rig.

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MF Poor

08-06-2012 10:37:26
72.4.0.230



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
IMHO, there is no standard answer to that question. However, there are some generalities that apply to moldboard plowing and chisel plowing.

Moldboard plowing is more likely to leave you with a "plow pan". That's a compaction layer at or just below the depth you plow. It buries crop residue more completely, which isn't a bad thing in some instances, but leaves fall plowed ground more susceptible to erosion (wind/water) Moldboard plowing does a slightly better job of weed control.

Chisel plowing leaves a bit more crop residue on the surface to hold soil in place during winter months. Many chisel plows are designed to run a bit deeper than a moldboard plow. In my part of the country, chisel plows became popular in the mid '70's. They were touted as a way of reliving compaction and improving soil drainage.

Results may vary with soil type, individual practices with plows/chisel plows, brand/type of chisel plow, and all your other farming practices.

Around these parts, BOTH types of plows are now used to anchor blackberry briars in fence rows since no till has been found to improve soil structure AND increase yields in our soils and climate. 20+ years without ANY tillage on my place. We're in the heart of the drought. No tilled corn is surviving the drought MUCH better here.

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jackinok

08-06-2012 07:24:11
162.58.82.136



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
a lot depends on your soil,chisel plowing doesnt bury the residue,like a moldboard does. Doesnt help control insects like corn borer and grasshopper. In my opinion,its lots of times a trade off. Around here folks have nearly all gone min till,with chisels and things. But they spray now more than ive ever seen. They claim they can spray far cheaper than they can cultivate plow and things,which is probably true. Ive not sprayed a whole lot over the years, but ive got some pastures that just came out of a lease that will have to have weed control work done.Im setting up a mower now to mow, then i intend to spray in spring. I'm going to keep good records on each with the same tractor,and see which is more cost effective for me. That should give me a good handle on which is best for this place. You might try the same,borrow/lease a chisel and try it once.See if the results would make it worth while.All that being said, ive seen farms plowed with moldboards this year that ive never seen turned before,i dont know if they simply had to bury stubble from crops that didnt make because of the drought,or were trying to catch any rain they could,but theres alot turned over now.Might not be a good time to be playing around with your farming program if your in one of the drought areas.

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JMS/.MN

08-05-2012 23:50:16
209.237.107.155



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
I run a 435 White 12 shank disc chisel behind my 4450 MFWD, (rated 145, cranks 190hp) generally 5 acres per hour, in heavy clay soil. A third faster than moldboard plowing with a 5-18. Bean ground, used to run a 12 shank Glencoe chisel (no discs) behind a 4430. Very little moldboard plowing here the last decade or two. Clay ground....worst job in the Fall here is better than the best you can do in the Spring. Much more mellow- whether moldboard or chisel. Before I had the 4WD 2470 Case or the current JD MFWD, I"d chain two 2wd together in the Fall if they could make it through the mud.

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johndeeregreen

08-05-2012 20:03:35
74.85.202.205



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to jeremy in NE, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
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Just wondering, how deep did you chisel plow, and how deep do you moldboard plow?

Thanks for all the reply s!



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Chester5731

08-06-2012 05:19:43
75.144.92.98



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 20:03:35  
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I went about 8 inches deep either way. When I chisel plowed I used an 806 diesel turned up to 120hp with a 7 shank chisel. Now I use a 450 gas with 3-16.



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James22

08-05-2012 19:08:14
207.179.221.29



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
As an experiment I pulled 5 spikes with a healthy JD 830 around 9.5 inches deep and it was plenty. Put the other six back on and pulled it with a AC 7080; it certainly was enough load. Mid-August wheat stubble and the ground was dry. If chiseling deep, I estimate approx 150% of what can be accomplished with a moldboard plow.



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HoosierHog

08-05-2012 18:52:04
69.130.186.216



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
I pull a 7 shank with a 94 hp tractor a neighbor pulls a 9 with a 110hp tracto. I'd think a 10 or 11 shank should be goog match to a 4440. Depends on soil conditions but hp requirements for a chisel range from ten to 15hp per shank. As to time I can chisel 2x faster than I plow.. But I'd recommend a 7 shank disc chisel. Dose better in corn stalks. I like to disc then chisel my corn. I use the chisel alone on bean stubble and 4-16 plow on hay ground. Then in spring I use a field cultivator then plant.

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Chester5731

08-05-2012 18:40:43
66.84.120.81



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 Re: Chisel plow vs Moldboard plow in reply to johndeeregreen, 08-05-2012 06:55:22  
I always chisel plowed everything. I now moldbard plow everything. With the moldboard plow I seem to get better yields and have less weeds. The chisel plow also seems to bring up more stones. Just my experience.



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