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Using Your Tractor & Crop Talk

Discussion Board - Sunday church story for all of you....

Author  [Modern View]
Animal

07-22-2012 11:28:37
76.0.45.15



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Here in our little town they started a horsey church. Its a big barn and stables at which they preach the word of our heavenly father. This horsey cathederal is built on a parcel of land that also shares 150 acres of hay ground. My neighbor has a wife that is horse stupid and together they have joined the flock. Today he tells me they baled the hay of these hallowed fields, which was burned up in the same fashion as everyone elses in this country. The parson in his ultimate and charitable wisdom has put these 4X5 bales on Craigslist for $60 each. So I have a couple of questions and one statement. First question, If a person purchases this hay can it be a donation to the church? Second question, since this is price gouging, should not this money be taxed like the rest of us have to pay? Now for the statement....if this is religion, it makes me proud to be a heathen!

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jddriver

07-23-2012 20:19:28
108.79.56.180



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-22-2012 11:28:37  
Mike I have Daves phone number and I helped start that church.You wanna call him?Both pastors dont live very far from you.They are there all the time have you went and talked to them or do you just want talk on the net?



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Animal

07-24-2012 05:37:43
76.0.45.15



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to jddriver, 07-23-2012 20:19:28  
I was told this from the mouth of the guy baling the hay. I really do not think I need to research this any further.



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jddriver

07-24-2012 18:42:24
108.79.56.180



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-24-2012 05:37:43  
Mike I would take the gossip way if I where too lazy to find the truth also This guy is a friend of mine and his story is very different I thought better of you



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Animal

07-25-2012 07:30:49
76.0.45.15



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to jddriver, 07-24-2012 18:42:24  
Ok you straighten me out. What good christian could bale hay a week ago in the condition it was and then sell it for $75 a bale. It was sold yesterday. I am sorry my hay was worth 25 dollars last year the only increase that I have made was to cover extra cost of fuel and net. Nothing magical has happened to this hay that makes it worth that much money except for greed. Thats my opinion and I stand by it.

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jddriver

07-25-2012 16:54:22
108.79.56.180



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-25-2012 07:30:49  
Mike go talk to Dave and get the truth.Not all that ground belongs to the church.That family actually allows them meet there.I just sold small squares for 5.50 a bale am I wrong for taking the money.I have seen you do the same thing.Let me reiterate go TALK to the owners.



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old

07-25-2012 21:03:18
209.86.226.11



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to jddriver, 07-25-2012 16:54:22  
Hey why don't you just do it this way and all will be settled. Take the hay in and have it check as to how good or bad it is and produce the numbers and stop all this petty bull. If it was baled in July or June and has not been on irrigated land it is nothing more then bedding so as I said produce the numbers or shut up



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jddriver

07-26-2012 20:27:00
108.79.56.180



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-25-2012 21:03:18  
Rich you are showing your a,,Mike can go talk to the owner he lives very close.If the buyer and seller are happy what business is it of yours,



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old

07-26-2012 20:36:51
209.86.226.56



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to jddriver, 07-26-2012 20:27:00  
Well see you do not want to do what is needed to prove your right or if Mike is right. Ya I do not know for sure the condition of the hay up there but if it is like it is down here and it was baled in June or July then yes that church is ripping people off but til you want to settle this the right way and have it checked out why ever say any thing. As it is said the proof is in the pudding. As I see it right now you and Mike neither one have a leg to stand on and all I see is you to not doing more then spinning your wheels over things that any of us should be into in the first place. All I am trying to do at this point is get you or him or both of you to do the right thing and have it tested then you can find out who is right and who is wrong. I am way to far to do any thing more then say what should be done to make this RIGHT

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jackinok

07-23-2012 07:33:27
162.58.82.135



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-22-2012 11:28:37  
my opinion,60$ is not too much and may be a bargain in a couple of months. Yes, it could be listed as a donation on your taxes. No money shouldnt be taxed if the money went to the church and not to a preacher/farmer, it Would be exactly the same as buying a cake at a bake sale. And as for your last statement,, keep in mind FAITH is what does you the good, NOT religion. Every religion is simply some man or groups version of what is correct.they were all invented by man,and in most cases for some personal gain,either on earth or in the afterlife.

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Brendon-KS

07-23-2012 15:06:39
63.245.190.37



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to jackinok, 07-23-2012 07:33:27  
If goods or services are received in exchange for money given to any not-for-profit (not just religious institutions), it is not considered a donation by the IRS. In this case if $60 is considered "fair market value", the purchaser would not be able to deduct any of the money as a donation. If the buyer handed over a $100 bill for one bale and said "keep the change", he could deduct $40.



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LAA

07-23-2012 07:15:20
86.51.147.113



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-22-2012 11:28:37  
I would think the Church would have to treat the proceeds from selling hay the same as proceeds from a church bake sale or pancake supper, I mean who else is going to get the money? The Preacher?



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donjr

07-22-2012 21:07:57
71.248.67.25



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-22-2012 11:28:37  
I've been selling 4x5's all year for $60. Nice hay, and they pick it up at the barn. We went up some last year because it was in short supply. Most 4x5 bales are around 759#, so that equates to about $180 a ton. That is what it should bring. Maybe someone can sell it for less, but if you put up a lot of hay, and do not want to be broken down half the time, and have newer machinery, you really can't sell it for less.

As for the church- everyone is hunting for an angle and/or a tax break. Even if he has two tax breaks, the gubment ain't gonna give him anymore back in April.

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paul

07-22-2012 20:36:09
66.44.133.112



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-22-2012 11:28:37  
You raise some interesting and good questions.

Won't be any answers to it that will work out; but good questions.

Many parishiners might buy the hay, leave the comment section of the check blank, and call it a donation next spring. But then that questions the morals of people again, so.....

I remember when I would help with Thursday nite bingo, people would come and write a check, make it for $10 more than the bingo so they could buy snacks. Fella helping said not many of those with checks actually buy checks, just have a bigger deduction at the end of the year.....

--->Paul

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gbs

07-22-2012 19:27:06
71.51.253.145



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-22-2012 11:28:37  
nothing wrong with one trying to better their self with an education, problem is in today's world the single toter's think that they are supposed to be hired at the top or immediately after getting a job be at the top,no practical experience at said job but put in charge of employee's that it will take them half a working carrier to gain the experience already in place, and more often than not given a position that lets then make financial decisions even though they couldn't manage a lemonade stand that are based on and paid buy a company account

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Erik Ks farmer

07-22-2012 18:39:29
199.192.211.59



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to flying belgian, 07-22-2012 11:28:37  
I don't know if I would call it that. I know of 5x5 rounds of hay selling at auction near here that sold around the $85 A BALE mark not ton, BALE last spring. Some sold south of me 6 miles a couple weeks ago I don't know what it brought but I do know a man who didn't want my hay at my price came back and bought from me after the sale. In my mind if it would bring $60 at a sale it's worth $60.



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old

07-22-2012 14:05:36
4.244.218.249



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-22-2012 11:28:37  
Well the problem there isn't the church but the people who are running it and not having a clue as to what or how to farm and yes it is not right and yes they should be told that, that hay is not good for any thing but mulch but it has to be done in such a way as not to offend them also. Lots of people have good intentions but due to the fact they are college smart do not have a clue as to how to do things and what is and what is not right. I see it all the time where a church has this or that going and in the end they throw out a lot of $$ of stuff due to the fact the people are college dumb

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jddriver

07-23-2012 20:20:48
108.79.56.180



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-22-2012 14:05:36  
Old you only know Mikes side of the story



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old

07-24-2012 11:45:20
209.86.226.57



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to jddriver, 07-23-2012 20:20:48  
Very true but I also know the weather conditions in the area and how poor much of the late harvest hay is and I also know churches very well



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jddriver

07-24-2012 18:47:01
108.79.56.180



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-24-2012 11:45:20  
Mike is getting his info third party and it aint even close to the truth and Rich you aint seen the hay. and I am guessing Mike aint seen it also.Instead of spreadinn gossip why dont you find th truth



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old

07-24-2012 18:55:17
209.86.226.34



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to jddriver, 07-24-2012 18:47:01  
Look I did not attack you so why do you attack me. Again goes back to what you should or should not do as per the book. Reason again I no longer believe in churches as such due to the fact to many Sunday day Christians and Monday hell raisers



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Errin OH

07-22-2012 18:06:03
71.79.150.206



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-22-2012 14:05:36  
It goes both ways. I have seen absolute con artist sell soggy moldy hay at a premium and complete idiots who had no idea Queens Ann’s Lace and thistles is not hay. Only thing in common is the fool buying it.

However in this case I tend to lean towards the latter. A “Horsey Church”, are you kidding. As far as donations go, to qualify as a donation we are required to place “suggested donation” on anything that we do for fund raising. Which means if they drop a quarter in the till, you gott'a give it to them. “Selling” for “profit” is strictly prohibited. You will lose you tax free status licitly split (n’other reason to think they fall in the not so smart category). If they are indeed selling for profit then yes it should be taxed (not that I am a fan of IRS).

I spent years in church and I know exactly where I stand with my maker. Very few and I mean “VERY FEW” established religions are even close. Most have some “special” thing no one else does and that’s why they are right. Religion is like the Constitution, simple, if you have to “justify” it, you probably shouldn’t be doing it.

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old

07-22-2012 20:03:38
209.86.226.19



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Errin OH, 07-22-2012 18:06:03  
Please do not try to preach to a preacher kid and a person who turned down being a preacher. I do not and will not preach due to so much hypocrites in the church system who are Sunday Christians and people who do not give a dam on Monday about who they hurt or harm



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Dave in Tx

07-22-2012 17:22:14
166.147.72.16



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-22-2012 14:05:36  
How can you make a judgement call like that old, when you don't know a single one of them? You don't know that the hay is just mulch. $60 dollars a bale is about half of what some pretty poor hay has brought in this country for the last year.



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old

07-22-2012 20:00:56
209.86.226.19



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Dave in Tx, 07-22-2012 17:22:14  
Judgement call??? Well I live in the same state as animal and I know what the fields are like right now and what hay is like if it was not baled say back in early May so I know what I am talking about and if baled in the last 30 days it is in fact mulch and that is all it is since it has not seen any rain in 30-60 days that is enough to help it any. I was done with my hay back the first part of May and it is good but I would not even look at a filed right now because I can not afford to replace equipment because you cut now you stand a very good chance of burning up the field and the equipment also

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jddriver

07-23-2012 20:22:56
108.79.56.180



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-22-2012 20:00:56  
Old you are 150 miles away and live in the devils rock garden again you dont know both sides.Do you want the two pastors phone number to call them?



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old

07-24-2012 11:46:53
209.86.226.57



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to jddriver, 07-23-2012 20:22:56  
Doesn't matter either way as I said I know what the hay drop is an if as I said it was done in late June or July it is not hay it is straw



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Animal

07-22-2012 14:58:18
76.0.45.15



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-22-2012 14:05:36  
Sorry Old, I disagree......its called greed.



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old

07-22-2012 19:57:09
209.86.226.19



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Animal, 07-22-2012 14:58:18  
That is the problem with most churches now days as with any other group of people. But again it also goes back to college educated fools who have the common sense educated out of them



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GordoSD

07-22-2012 14:47:00
64.33.250.162



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-22-2012 14:05:36  
Careful Rich. There are a lot of college grads on this forum. I am guessing you are not one of them. LOL How many of you out there have bachelors, masters, or doctorate degrees and are "college dumb"?



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JMS/.MN

07-22-2012 21:48:41
209.237.107.155



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to GordoSD, 07-22-2012 14:47:00  
This reminds me of being at a seed corn meeting when one fellow commented about the speaker, "how many years did you spend in college to get that stupid?" My thought was, that commenter managed to get dumber than a rock with only about 8 years of country school. Likely farmed cuz daddy gave it to him. I earned a BS degree in 3 1/2 years, while working part and full-time..., and started farming from scratch. I value education. Yes, I"ve seen enough educated people without common sense, but I find it common among construction worker friends, as well as laborers I worked with during college, that they always criticize the stupid bosses. Yeah, the ones that design the projects that give them 30 bux an hour with the only investment in their job being their lunch pail. So quick to criticize the farmers being successful (like dairymen working 7 days a week, or grain farmers finally getting a decent price), while THEY don"t do weekends...or winters. I remember how they howled when their EMPLOYER paid unemployment was taxed as regular income.

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Frankmn

07-24-2012 17:56:50
71.55.136.102



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to JMS/.MN, 07-22-2012 21:48:41  
I like the comment about nothing invested but a lunch pail. My dad used to say that occasionally.
College is not a trade school, it is supposed to teach you how to use your brain and think about things. It makes you know a lot about a little, but it also makes you know a little about a lot.



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old

07-22-2012 19:55:18
209.86.226.19



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to GordoSD, 07-22-2012 14:47:00  
No I do not have a college degree but my brother does and he is an educated fool. My dad on the other hand could have had a doctors degree if he had just done one more thing and he was a Lutheran Minister and a college professor so do not begin to tell me about things. I my self turn down being a preacher due to the fact I so so much hypocrites in the church system. I know the book well and have read it cover to cover and know it in Hebrew Greek and Latin but no college degree so as I have said before I leave you alone and please leave me alone

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aFORDable

07-23-2012 14:41:03
208.78.252.246



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-22-2012 19:55:18  
Since you are quick to jump to conclusions about college graduates and how they have no common sense I will jump to a conclusion also. You are intimidated by college graduates and my guess is, truth be known, the only chapter in the Bible you could translate into Greek, Hebrew and Latin would be the 23rd. chapter of Revelation!



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old

07-23-2012 17:12:04
209.86.226.27



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to aFORDable, 07-23-2012 14:41:03  
Well the truth be known I turned down more then one scholarship when I got out of high school. Yes I do have a few years of college but no paper to back it up. But again I was not talking to you was I so why do you jump in where you where not being talked to. I could see you answer me or a post if it was directed to you but this one sure is not. Ask for the bible again I took the classes I need to do that and can do it front to back as long as that was what is was written in, in in the first place

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aFORDable

07-23-2012 18:50:25
208.78.252.246



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-23-2012 17:12:04  
Look again, when you make a blanket statement that college graduates have had common sense educated out of them you are in fact directing that statement to me in the fact that I am a college graduate. That slam was out of place and has no merit. There are people without common sense in all walks of society and having a degree has nothing to do with it. My common sense, which I happen to have a great deal of due to life's experiences such as Vietnam and farming, was also enhanced by my degree. My common sense also told me not to get in such a useless debate as this but I couldn't resist. You have a good day Old and if you ever have surgery I hope it is by a certified doctor with a medical degree and not someone that just has common sense. :)

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old

07-23-2012 19:18:09
209.86.226.27



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to aFORDable, 07-23-2012 18:50:25  
Well again it goes to my back ground and who I have dealt with all my life. My dad being a college professor put me in a place where I dealt with people in college all the time and most I can across in life had little or no common sense and that also fit into the navy life and the officers not having a clue. With out knowing a person if it hard to understand why one thinks as they do and me being where I ran into them all the time I learned to duck and cover if they had much college teaching. Now as for me on paper I have only a few college courses but as for the CLEP test I have taken I could almost had a degree

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TGIN

07-24-2012 06:16:13
4.252.93.8



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-23-2012 19:18:09  
Old , you will never run out of fertilizer !!



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Robert NC

07-23-2012 04:17:09
98.24.163.98



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-22-2012 19:55:18  
Combing common sense and education goes along way. But if u throw out the commonsense and use ony education alot of time u fall flat.

Where I work we say that logic and commonsense is left at the curb by management who are school educated.



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Vernon in Ks

07-23-2012 06:29:31
66.210.29.138



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Robert NC, 07-23-2012 04:17:09  
Old saying " Those who can-Do, Those who can"t --Teach, Those who can"t teach--Manage"



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Frankmn

07-24-2012 18:01:24
71.55.136.102



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Vernon in Ks, 07-23-2012 06:29:31  
Those who can't teach, teach phy. ed.



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old

07-23-2012 09:44:44
209.86.226.40



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Vernon in Ks, 07-23-2012 06:29:31  
Yep but I still say now days if the person went to college there common sense has been taught right out of them if they even had it to start with. Same problem with the gov. to many educated fools run the gov and that why there are so many problem with this nation now days



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Larry NEIL

07-23-2012 12:04:37
75.4.140.59



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-23-2012 09:44:44  
Good post Animal.....brought the wisdom right out didn't it?

:>) Larry NEIL



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randallinMo

07-24-2012 07:26:08
216.74.205.155



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to Larry NEIL, 07-23-2012 12:04:37  
Now Larry............THAT was just downright FUNNY!! YOu put this whole dicussion into perspective!

By the way, I live close to both Old and Animal. They are both fine fellas. The heat just gets to us at times. No matter how well educated or how much common sense we have....the heat WILL mess with you.

RandallinMo,
BS Agriculture Economics, 1971
Double Major, Dairy Nutrition, Soils
Southwest Missouri State, Springfield, Mo.

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old

07-24-2012 21:54:51
209.86.226.27



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to randallinMo, 07-24-2012 07:26:08  
Well I know I may have asked this before but where are you??? I could have gone to more college but found it was boring. When I did I was getting 3.8-4.0 grades but did not enjoy it much other then the good looking women that where there LOL. Took a number of CLEP test when in the navy and some I did poorly on like English but others like mechanics I did very well on. Like one out of 67 question you could get right I did 65 and the other test out of 72 I got 67 right which is not bad for some one who never had any shop class in school

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randallinMo

07-25-2012 05:27:04
216.74.205.155



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-24-2012 21:54:51  
Old, I am in Cooper county. What is a CLEP test? I"ve never heard of that one. By the way, where was your dad located and what church did he serve? Where did you guys grow up? How did you end up at the lake?



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old

07-25-2012 07:43:00
209.86.226.11



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to randallinMo, 07-25-2012 05:27:04  
CLEP is college level exam program. Getting pretty common now days but back in the navy they where offered so I took a good many of them.
My dad was a minister for the Missouri Synod Lutheran church.As for where we where we seemed to move about every 3-6 years and I have live in many states from way up in MN to down in MS. We ended up here because my dad found land he could buy pretty cheap as in $250 per acre. When I got out of the navy after 6 years I came home which by the way had changed at least 4 times since I had joined. My dad was also a college prof

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randallinMo

07-26-2012 05:43:43
216.74.205.155



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to old, 07-25-2012 07:43:00  
THanks for the information. WHich college did your dad teach? What was his name? How old would he be now? THe reason I ask is that I attended St. Paul's Lutheran High School in Concordia, MO. back in 63'-67. 'Just wondered if I might possibly have known him.



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old

07-26-2012 09:46:10
209.86.226.27



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 Re: Sunday church story for all of you.... in reply to randallinMo, 07-26-2012 05:43:43  
Well from 63-67 we would have been in Winfield KS and or Leigh NE. When in Winfield KS my dad taught at ST. John's college there. He also taught at Tennessee Westling (sp) in Athens TN and then a few years later taught at Delta State University in Cleveland MS which is where I graduated from High school. My dad died in May of 2007 at he age of 85 or 86. Before I was 5 years old I have live in more town then I was old. I do know some time before that 5 years old we had lived in both St. Louis MO and St. Peters MO but that would have been before you where there since we moved to Winfield KS when I was 4 so that would have been in 1960 or 61 but pretty sure it was 60

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