rear main seal??

Hey Folks,
What are the rear main seals made of in your old tractors and what are the replacements made of? My rear main is leaking a little again (just replaced a few days ago), tolerable at the moment, but still leaking.
The only thing available is a graphite ring which looks like a piece of rope impregnated with grease and graphite. After reading on several forums, it seems common for them to leak when replaced. Some say that they replace several then just get lucky. I don't have the time or patience and can't do without the tractor to keep having them replaced and can't ask the kid to keep doing it for me.
Any of you had a problem like that and came up with a fix that didn't involve a crap shoot? I haven't put anything in the motor other than oil, but is there some kind miracle snake oil that would swell/seal that type of seal?

Thanks for any tips,
Dave

Is your seal in the crankcase itself for top half and bearing cap for bottom. If so, I have pulled a few top halfs through from underneath but like you indicate it is a hit and miss situation. What I did to get a reliable repair was with crankshaft removed, I made a tool to press them in the same distance as crankshaft would . Actually, I cut off an old shot crankshaft to make tool out of . All the older IH truck engines used those seals along with many automobiles. The BD engines in the IH combines did also. All the old Farmall H & M's etc used a two piece felt seal in a retainer bolted on the rear of the crankcase. Then they went to a one piece lip seal for most all tractors that goes over end of crank, some into crankcase, some into plate, some into a seperate retainer.

The rope like seals never work too well, the answer is a two piece neoprene lip style seal. The issue is that there may not be one made for that engine. Ford (automotive) replaced rope seals with neo in the 60s. Best of luck. Jim

This is the holder for the seal. There is not a rubber seal made for it...... So I'm told...


http://cgi.ebay.de/org-IHC-Kurbelwe...e_Zubehör_Landtechnik&hash=item562f60886c

Enginuity would force me to buy the part and machine a seal bore in it for a standard lip seal that fit the crang journal. Jim

Where I used to work we had some gear reducers
that usually leaked just a little, and when you
are making white paper you can't have oil dripping
down from the bridge crane! our solution was to
put absorbent pads on the bottom like a diaper and
that is what we called them. One time we got a
complete new trolley and I was putting diapers on
the gearboxes before we installed it and the
supervisor said we shouldn't need that, its brand
new. I replied you wouldn't bring a new baby home
from the hospital without a diaper would you!

Two piece seals shouldn't be installed at 90 & 270
degrees, even with the main cap parting line.
Push the top seal barely around so a 1/2" space is
left on one side and 1/2" of seal hanging out the
other. Rotate the other half of the seal in the main
cap to mate.
Should work fine. Had to do that old trick on my
Grand National.

Are you sure it is coming out along the crankshaft, these seals [talking about FMD] after being pressed in , are not cut flush with the retainer but .015 from the retainer.It might be in that corner where it can be rectified by removing the pan and not the crankshaft.

Ford... depends on what Ford. I just replaced the end seals on my Fordson Major [not because they were leaking but as part of a motor overhaul]and they were not noeprene.But Graphite coated seals.The seals worked well for me. depends how they are installed. Do a good job, get a good result.

Want a REAL "tell it like it is" tip?

If you have an antique tractor that uses such a seal, simply put up with it "marking it's territory" a bit or upgrade to something made in the last 40 or 50 years that has an "honest to God" 360º lip seal rather than something with a "rope seal" that piddled on the ground when it was NEW 50 years ago. (You didn't realize that, did you?)

Some guys have a REAL problem distinguishing between "antique (and CUTE) machine or something a bit more modern and FUNCTIONAL!

The rope type seals usually dripped a little. Your problem is more than likely the crankshaft main bearings. They are worn so the crank is moving more than the rope seal can adjust for.

A trick I have used for many years on rope seals. Remove the oil pan and rear main bearing cap.

Then you need to make a real simple tool. Take a six inch piece of 3/16 brake line. The center hole should be about 1/8. I then take a welding rod that the steel part will just fit through the brake line. Beat all of the flux off of it. You need it cut to a length that is the same as your brake line. You now have an installer for a shim wire to go between the block and the top rope seal. Take a piece of the larger electric fence wire ( any hard wire will work it just can"t be soft baling wire)cut it about an inch longer then your installation tool. Sharpen one end to a point. Take that wire and put it between the block and the rope seal( CAUTION NOT BETWEEN THE CRANKSHAFT AND THE ROPE SEAL !!!). Push it up to get it started. Then slide the tube over it. Take a small hammer and drive the wire in. When it gets flush you will then place the weld rod/driver in the tube to drive the wire the rest of the way around. Cut the ends to flush. Then install a new rope seal in the bottom cap. cut the ends a little long, that way when you tighten the main bearing cap it will seal the joint.

I used to have a factory tool like this to use on rope seals. Someone borrowed it and never returned it. So I just made one. I have done this repair on many old Fords and Ferguson"s. The old seal seems to seal real well once you get it tight against the crank. I have a Ford 961 that I did this on in 1981, it still is holding fine.

Thanks everyone..........I'll talk to him and see what he has in mind, but if it doesn't get any worse , I'll just stick a pan under it. Just found on another forum that someone is working on a holder that will take a rubber (?) seal. If they get it right and aren't too proud of it, I'll maybe go that way (if I can't convince him to try JD Sellers trick).

Dave

thank you