Help with Montgomery ward Tiller!!!

Trenton627 · Mar 27, 2011

http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=654946

My engine looks like that one...I am not getting spark and the wheel doesn't seem to touch the thing above it...there is a mark where it looks like there should be a pad or something but there isnt! help!

Has fresh gas, air filte

Anonymous-0 · Mar 27, 2011

I suspect that the key holding the flywheel to the crankshaft may be out of alignment. If it's off just a hair you have nothing. The only solution is to replace the key.

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

Trent. Couple of questions. Was the tiller setting outside with out covering the engine? If the engine was covered still some rust may have accumulated on the flywheel (where the magnet strip is imbeded)if that is so, then lightly sand paper the strip and remove the coil. There will be rust/dirt on both prongs. Clean it the same way. Now when you replace the coil. use A PLAIN PLAYING CARD (ace of spades or any others) as that will insure you the correct spacing between the coil points and the magnet strip. Tighten the coil down with the card still inserted between the coil and flywheel. Spin the flywheel by hand, remove the card. Should be spark (if the coil is good. Put a small dab of fuel in the plug hole and give it a pull, Should start. Hope this helps. Ps Look for mice nests . Regards LOU.

Bob · Mar 27, 2011

Trent, if I'm guessing correctly about what you are talking about, the "wheel" is the flywheel and "the thing above it" is the coil (or "armature" in Briggs terminology).

There's supposed to be a gap between them, the thickness of a business card is close enough.

Likely, you engine is old enough there's still breaker points beneath the flywheel, and they're probably corroded, making for no spark. To clean or replace them the flywheel has to be removed.

The coil (armature) can be replaced with a later unit giving electronic ignition and eliminating the need to remove the flywheel for access to the points 'cause they get abandoned in the changeover.

If you look closely on the sheet metal cover around the flywheel there should be Briggs ID #'s. Write 'em down and go to BriggsandStratton.com and you SHOULD be able to access an on-line manual for the engine or buy a hard copy from a local mower shop or ebay.

Bob · Mar 27, 2011

It's not NEARLY as likely for a flywheel key on a tiller engine to shear as it is on a direct-drive lawnmower engine.

Unless it already DOES have EI, dirty points are a MUCH more likely reason for no spark.

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

Tommy has another solution (if you hit something Huge rock. stump etc,while operating the tiller. and caused the engine to dead stop. Possible sheared key way .You will need to replace the key way. That to is the timing sequence for the engine. LOU.

Bob · Mar 27, 2011

LOU, it's an "old mechanic's wive's tale (which you seem to have lots of) that a little rust on the flywheel makes for no spark.

Form the OFFICIAL Briggs website:

"Now, how about some of those old wives tales that just aren't true.

Rust on the flywheel magnets causes a loss of spark. Not true. A magnetic field does not care about rust. It has no effect on it."

If you are not too self-absorbed, surf over to the Briggs site linked below and read it for yourself!

(Scroll down about halfway.)
It aint so, Lou

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

BoB. Little do you know. Iron rust particles do cause loss of electric impulses to the system. I've been more into small engines then you can ever hope to be involved with. Serviced em at Sears Lawn Service 1958-1972. You seem to be a authority on most every subject that is posted . I can call you Mr Know it all.You must have muscle spasms from Pating your self on the back (BOTH ARMS AT THE SAME TIME) or so it appears. Seems like you just can't wait to try and discredit posters who give out information to try and help some person who needs assistance. You also have to be aware that your telling folks, You work at the place you work rather then give the world the benefit of your superior knowledge and ability. You see , I can recognize a superior level of intelligence and you do not fit the category, as we all Know. Have a great day. LOU

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

heres a link
you cant fix stupid BOB

molinebob · Mar 27, 2011

I have takin many briggs apart just to clean the rust off of the flywheel because of no spark, and for some reason when i put it back together what do ya know it starts right up! But as you say rust is not an issue? Dont see how you can say that! The Other Bob that dosent quite know everything!

teddy52food · Mar 27, 2011

The rust would have to be built up so much that it contacts the legs of the coil before it affects the spark. You can't have a fuzzy leading or trailing edge on the magnet. It has to break clean. Dirty points will knock out the spark more than rust on the magnet. A magnetic field will penetrate everything including lead. It can't be shielded.

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

MOLINE BOB The Other BOB(you) certainly does Know. Regards, (old wives tale) LOU.

old · Mar 27, 2011

Yep Bob I agree with you 100% rust does not stop spark if it did there would be a lot of machine I use that would not have spark. Points on most of the older engines is the cause of the problem and can be a pain to get to if the fly wheel does not want to come off

Trenton627 · Mar 27, 2011

Thanks for the help im going to try it right now! i did notice so rust so i will try your idea! thanks and ill let you know how it goes

Trenton627 · Mar 27, 2011

Thanks for the help everyone...im going to work on it now. ill update you soon!

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

Teddy Thousands of Small engine mechanics must be wrong.With the minuscule amount of distance between the coil and the magneto housing(.0070) it becomes a problem to have current flow to the plug due to, the rust(not a stalagmite amount but) ,just the amount needed to make the spark failure.This problem is not always the solution to faulty current flow, Points. Cracked flywheel. bad coil (not called an armature)Sheared Flywheel key causing misfire of the timing,points & condenser can and will cause engine spark failure.Doing what we suggested is just another RIGHT STEP in securing a good running engine.Not old wives tale. Just common sense. LOU.

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

Old. Not to belay the point, but the link posted , along with 1.000 other small engine mechanics would agree that rust is one of the culprits. Not to be discounted. LOU.

Trenton627 · Mar 27, 2011

I tried the sanding thing and it seemed to get a ton of gunk and stuff off the connections but nothing seems to be making it to the spark plug...anyone know if like sears would have a new coil available to order? i know its old but it is a great machine and id love to get it running! if anyone has any other ideas let me know...at worst ill bring it down the road to the small engine repair place

old · Mar 27, 2011

Well in the 40 plus years I have worked on small engines I have yet to find one that would not run because of rust. Now yes a bad magnet or bad or dirty points yes but never rust unless of course it is so bad as to hit the mag

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

If you get the number(model) off the engine,there are a few different places to get parts from,link below is one,but you have to have the model number to find the correct parts.Sears may not have for the older engines,but I left in 1972, and been awhile since I worked on them and looked up parts.You could try them and see, only thing is they could say no,but keep looking.There is quite a few different places when you type in Briggs and Stratton repair parts on the web,that will sell em.Hope this helps. Regards,LOU

Lou from Wi. · Mar 27, 2011

forgot the site.
briggs site

old · Mar 27, 2011

With engine model and type and serial number you should be able to get most any part you need from a good lawn mower shop. I have even got parts for my old D/B walk behind garden tractor which has a 2 HP engine on it

usetob · Mar 27, 2011

you must have model, type,and code numbers off the blower housing to get the right parts!
good luck

JayinNY · Mar 27, 2011

Not true, just a little rust, were I have used 220 sand paper, or those green sos pads, or what ever there called, to sand off a little rust to get the the mag to make a spark.

LenND · Mar 27, 2011

Go to a B & S parts selling store and buy the electronis system. Throw away the old stuff and your problems will be solved. BTDT

Old Roy · Mar 27, 2011

when you put the cover back on did you pinch the coil wire possibly causing a dead short ?
Also could be the grounding wire for the shut down may have a bare spot from the points to the shut off on the throttle bracket.

Bob · Mar 28, 2011

So, Lou, you know more than the company that made the engine! You must be ONE smart dude!

Lou from Wi. · Mar 28, 2011

Unlike you bob. There are others here that are as smart as my self. Worked for us. Sand flywheel . etc. I guess you will remain like the man said("Can't cure stupid)!,Now be a good Little Boy and go out side and play. Your mommie is watching. LOU.

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