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Dumb question-horizontal/vertical shaft engines

Z

Zachary Hoyt

Well-known Member
I think I know what the answer is but I have no experience to base it on and I will be very grateful for any advice. I have about a 12 HP Briggs and Stratton engine on our little sawmill. It will need to be replaced at some point and I am looking for a larger(up to 20-24 HP) used engine that I can buy to use for a spare when this one dies. It is a horizontal shaft engine, and most of the engines I see are vertical shaft engines out of lawn tractors. Is it possible to change the orientation of an engine? I am guessing that the lubrication may not work right, but I don't know. Thank you very much.
Zach
a31009.jpg
 
i WOULD JUST REPLACE WITH WHAT WAS THERE. BE A LOT EASIER AND LESS FABBING TO GET HOLES LINED ETC.
why re invent the wheel?
 
What you have there is a horizontal engine. If you are looking for a bigger engine check out eBay or the link. They have bigger horizontal engine Briggs engines on eBay for a good price.
Poke Here
 
I'm looking for a used engine to save on price. If I need an engine and have not been able to get one I would buy new. This mill comes from the factory with several sizes of engine and we got a small one because we didn't know whether we'd end up using it enough to justify the extra $$ for a big one.
Zach
 
No, if you turn a vertical on its side, it will sieze in short order from lack of lubrication. Oil sump is at the bottom, and if you turn it sideways, it no longer is, and will not pick up oil. As others have said, lots of used engines around- stick with something similar.
 
You can get a brand new Chinese Honda clone, electric start from Harbor Freight for $369 regular price. I caught one on sale for $299 and used a 20% off coupon I found in Popular Mechanics. Basically $240 + tax. I put one on an air compressor that I built.

Before anyone jumps on me, I know its a cheap engine, but for <$300 you can buy 3 of these for the price of a Honda.

Good luck,
 
My saw mill has a Honda engine, hasnt missed a beat in 6 years.13 hp electric start.Dont mess with used,sawing lumber is hard work.You need a good engine.
 
Well, that's true. What mill do you have, and what kind of lumber do you saw? I'm always interested in how people use their mills.
Zach
 
If you are thinking of turning a vertical shaft engine on its side to line the crankshaft up for the saw , no it wont work . Fuel tank/carb and oil sump issues (no fuel/no lube for crank and spillage of fuel/oil.). I would plan on using another horiz. shaft engine or llok into a 90 degree gearbox that would allow you to use a vertical shaft engine mounted properly. Surplus Center has them. Surpluscenter.com.
 
I have a Thomas Mill built about 8 miles from me. It cost 5500 hard earned dollars 6 years ago.Dale Thomas helped me set it up and showed me how to run it. I saw cedar, poplar, ash, red oak, cherry and some white oak.Ive worked on small engines for many years and do not want a Briggs or Tecumseh on my mill.i have the clapboard attachment and have sawed some nice clap boards for a friend.The engine is the heart of the sawmill.Dont go for cheap.
 
No you cant run a four stroke engine on its side like you asked, oil will run up threw the valves and into the heads. A two cycle engine like a string trimmer, with a diaphram carb yes. The 4 bolts that hold the engine down are all the same. IE, I had a junk Honda 13hp on a AgriMetal bedding chopper, and I bolted on a 8hp B&S engine. I have had Honda, B&S and now harbor freight Greyhound engines on my lawnmower vacume systems, and the mounting holes all line up. You may have a hard time finding a used engine.
 
(quoted from post at 17:36:52 01/29/11) Thank you for the tip. Do you know how big they make them? I
need at least 12 HP.
Zach
Click to expand...

I forgot the HP. It is a 13 HP, electric start, Honda clone. It "looks" just like a red and white Honda (GX?), but blue. Northern Tool has an engine like it but it cost a little more plus freight. The HF part No is, 66555 and the web link is http://www.harborfreight.com/13-hp-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-66555.html for $349.99. It has 9 reviews and 5 stars rating it.

Good luck,

CT
 
(quoted from post at 17:36:52 01/29/11) Thank you for the tip. Do you know how big they make them? I
need at least 12 HP.
Zach
Click to expand...

I forgot the HP. It is a 13 HP, electric start, Honda clone. It "looks" just like a red and white Honda (GX?), but blue. Northern Tool has an engine like it but it cost a little more plus freight. The HF part No is, 66555 and the web link is http://www.harborfreight.com/13-hp-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-66555.html for $349.99. It has 9 reviews and 5 stars rating it.

Good luck,

CT
 
(quoted from post at 17:36:52 01/29/11) Thank you for the tip. Do you know how big they make them? I
need at least 12 HP.
Zach
Click to expand...

I forgot the HP. It is a 13 HP, electric start, Honda clone. It "looks" just like a red and white Honda (GX?), but blue. Northern Tool has an engine like it but it cost a little more plus freight. The HF part No is, 66555 and the web link is http://www.harborfreight.com/13-hp-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-66555.html for $349.99. It has 9 reviews and 5 stars rating it.

Good luck,

CT
 
I Hate to dissagree with some of the bottom posters.
There is one for sure you can use either way.
Look for an old garden tractor with a 18 hp Kohler Mag. it has to be the magnum engine it is pressure lubed. and the oil pump either way will be in the bottom.

Block is made with both base plates for mounting
some can be found on the older rear engine gravely.
some sears/ wards mounted them as a vertical engine
 
I Hate to dissagree with some of the bottom posters.
There is one for sure you can use either way.
Look for an old garden tractor with a 18 hp Kohler Mag. it has to be the magnum engine it is pressure lubed. and the oil pump either way will be in the bottom.

Block is made with both base plates for mounting
some can be found on the older rear engine gravely.
some sears/ wards mounted them as a vertical engine
 
Why do people always want to get by as cheap as they can. If there in a business down time , just trying to save a few dollars will cost them more in the long run . I ve worked in the Small Air Cooled Engine Field for the last 30 years , & sometimes cheaper isn t theway to go. Oh well too each his own, but for me I would bite the bullet & get me one that I could depend on. Plus locally just for the warranty , who needs headaches?
 
Thank you very much, that looks like a good option. I'll call the
store in Syracuse and see if they have them and ask about the
extended warranty.
Zach
 
Come on over here At least one guy here changed them over.
And I have a friend rebuilding one a few mile from me and it was a vertical in fact he is waiting for the intake from flea bay.
poke
 
I think you should find a small diesel engine for that job.I bought a little diesel and they are almost bullet prof,and cheap to run.

My $.02 worth
 
Whatever engine you decide on maybe don't go for anything too heavy with that handlift.I have handlift on mine with an adequate 11 horse Honda.Wasn't hard to lift 25 years ago but it's getting to be a bit of a slog now.(over 60 club)
 
A lot of mowers had a dual pulley set up to run a horizontal accessory off a vertical engine and visa-versa.
Like this snow blower
snapperpully.jpg
 
That is called a "mule drive". John Deere and Snapper have used them for years before larger vertical shaft engines became popular. I have had both JD and Snapper garden tractors and the rear of the crankshaft went to the transmission and the front of the crank went to an electric clutch. The mule drive had two pulleys to turn the belt 90 degrees to the mowing deck.

I'd still go back with a horizontal shaft.

CT
 
Diesel fuel costs more than gas now plus the stink of a diesel with the operator close to the engine make gas a better choice.
 
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