Kubota L2550 needs block heater!

Hi, Guys. I have a 1986 Kubota L2550 30hp 4x4 tractor with 3 cylinder 1.3l diesel engine. It gets really cold here and a block heater would make a huge difference when starting at minus 20 C or worse. Question: I've heard there isn't enough room under any of the three frost plugs for a frost plug type heater. The cylinder wall is apparently just too close to the exterior. So I've heard, anyway. What's the best way to get some serious heat into the coolant? I saw a nice couple of in-hose heaters the other day; all you do is cut the lower rad hose and install. Easy! But... without a constant thermosyphoning of coolant through the heater (hot out to the engine, cool in the other end) the little high-limit thermostat will open and briefly turn the unit off. If this were a car or truck I would plumb a heater into the heater hoses. That works really well. But here things are different. And it's tight under that hood! Any ideas? I need AT LEAST 400 watts and more would be better. Thanks! Paul

Paul....

HOW do you know you need at least 400 Watts... a 400 Watt block heater plugged in overnight here on the tundra will do a pretty good job of making a man-sized engine start, much less that little thing!

Start out by giving Phillips and Temro a call and see if they have anything to offer to help out the poor cold little thing!

U.S.A.
Phillips and Temro Industries
Cold Weather Division
9700 West 74th Street
Eden Prairie, MN 55344

Phone: 1-800-328-6108
Fax: 1-952-941-2285
New Customers: [email protected]

Orders/Support: [email protected]

what about one that goes in the lower radiator hose or the pads that glue to the oil pan? An electric dipstick should take care of it also.

Dave

Bob and Dave, my truck has a factory 450W frost plug heater and it just barely does the job at minus 30C. I HAVE started it at minus 39C after 8 hrs of preheat, but it was a real struggle, using a second booster battery too. If you haven't experienced these kinds of temperatures you just can't imagine it. I will probably install a much larger coolant heater (or a second) one day. I have talked to the Philips and Temro folks: their catalog suggests a screw-in 400W heater that fits into a fitting MY tractor doesn't have! Dipstick heaters were banned here some time ago because they can only keep warm oil warm. That's not much use, so people plug them in to warm cold oil which cannot circulate as it warms. so it carbonizes on the heater instead. There were too many engine fires as a result. I don't worry about what the law says, and COULD order one, but I'm told the fire danger is real and they just cannot warm really cold oil.

I did just install twin 50W oil-pan heaters the other day, but 100 watts is not enough. The oil pan is a two-sump sort of design, made to fit around the drive shaft, so only very small peel-and-stick pads can be attached. Kubota didn't make it easy!

I should say we are moving to an off-grid solar house later this year. I need enough watts to get that engine warmed up FAST, say in two hours or so, because my generator is going to be supplying the power. Overnight is out of the question. Yes, I will be eventually building a nice warm shop/garage, but that's in the future. Paul

I had a kubota engine in a skid steer and that coolant heater screwed in to the back of the head. Have you checked real close to see if you have any fittings that a heater can be installed into? If not then a radiator hose heater will work too. The will circulate the water by thermal cycling.

A low compression gas engine in a vehicle is way easier to start than a high compression indirect injection diesel in -30C temps. I have a kubota in my skid steer with a 400 watt heater on the head and dual batteries. When it's real cold, it's not the easiest engine to get going. The 3 cylinder Perkins in my 1965 tractor starts way easier than the Kubota. Dave

Dave, I have quite a number of diesel engines and can start ANY of them in bitter weather, if I need to.

Heaters range from a 1500 Watt tank heater on a gas 4020 (OVERkill) to a 4020 Diesel with an 850 Watt heater (just right for a start after a 3 or 4 hour spell of being plugged in) to a 730 Deere diesel with a 400 Watt blockheater to an 8630 Deere (750 Watts, IIRC) plus a handfull more. There's quite a bit of iron involved in a couple of those engines!

Paul, does the tractor have a block drain plug, and a thermostat bypass hose? if so, you can install an external tank type thermo siphon heater. You could also do the lower radiator hose heater, but to do it right, there needs to be a run of hose, running 15 to 30 degrees uphill, toward the motor, to cut into, and install the heater. You could also try a 300 watt magnet heater, on the freeze plug side of the motor. Google Kat block heater, they have quite a selection of block heaters. I just picked up 2 40 MM heaters, as extras, off of fleabay, for $15.00 each.

When installing a frost plug heater does it matter which frost plug you put it in? I have a Kubota in a skid steer and when the temp hit 0 I have to get the reddy heater out

I've got a little 50 hp Kubota and its the best starting diesel I've ever owned, no block heater, starts down to -33 C no problem. 2 of my glowplugs are burnt out this year so it is getting a little cranky.

Our last IH had a hose mounted heater, and I think it had a pump in it. At -30 C, it took about 1 hr to get it warm enough to start.

At -10, about 10 minutes.

Sitting out in the wind or inside the shop or garage?

Is your preheater working as it should?? I have a 7800 30hp kubota I use everyday almost and it has never let me down. It does set inside a unheated polebarn though. Twenty below is the coldest I remember starting it and fired right up. I also use 15w40 oil year round. I did replace the six year old factory batt. this year. I had a 2150 Kubota 24 hp. before this one and that always started good. I use a lower radiator hose heater from tsc in a massey I have and I have had good luck with that. Just plug it in a couple hours before I use the tractor and it will start right up without the preheater. I think I seen one there at TSC for about 19.95 the other day.

JDseller, I'll have one more more look at the cylinder head for a fitting. Funny place to apply heat, though, because heat at the top of an engine won't circulate downward. I'd rather see heat enter the lower side of the block. Diydave, there IS a drain fitting, halfway to the rad, in the lower hose, and a thermostat bypass hose, so I probably COULD make a tank heater work. But they are bulky things and there is just absolutely NO room under the hood. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it might need to hang over the front axle or something. If I run out of options I might have to try it. Ivan in Mich, Kubota placed each frost plug hole over each cylinder, where the coolant passage is shallowest, instead of between the cylinders. I'm told there just isn't enough depth for ANY frost plug to fit. Too bad, because frost plug heaters dissipate less heat into the surrounding air than any other type of coolant heater. They're also pretty cheap and take up no space. I gotta say, I am REALLY tempted to remove a plug anyways, just to see if I really can't find a frost plug heater to fit. Philips and Temro have both a 400W and 600W heater that might fit. Maybe my neighbours are wrong.

My tractor sits out in the cold wind. I am running a synthetic Shell 0W30 oil in most of my equipment, including my truck. Nothing else flows at these temperatures. I must say, though, that everyone here has told me the same thing: build a garage, even an unheated one. Even though I may get the engine started, the transmission and hydraulics don't like these extreme temperatures. And I can't put heaters on everything. One friend burst his hydraulic pump some years ago in; it just split open trying to push frigid oil and the internal relief valve somehow didn't do its job. Hard to believe. Paul

Some engines are a lot easier to start than others and don't require as much heat to help them. A gas engine should be easier to start than a diesel. The newer Kubota's have direct injection and start much easier than the older ones. With the older indirect Kubota's, you need to use the glow plugs even on a hot summers day. If they need glow plugs when it's 25C above, just imagine what they need when it's -25C and colder. Dave

Paul, I have one hooked up to a Satoh Beaver II motor, it is half in and half outside of the sheet metal! Thing to remember about tank heaters is, they have to be mounted with the tank in the vertical position, or you burn them up. If it were me, I would buy 3 freeze plugs, they don't cost much, mine were about a buck and a quarter. Then knock out all 3 on yours, you just hit with a punch at the top, either side, or bottom, the plug will rotate, and when you get enough sticking out, grab it with a pair of channel-lock pliers, and pull it out. Once you have your plugs out, take the heater, and see which hole (if any) it will fit in. I think the bulb, or loop, on the heater needs to point straight up, for longest heater life. Having the plugs means, even if the heater won't fit, you can always put everything back to the way it was, and you are only out the plugs and heater cost.

My suggestion is to contact a Kubota Dealer or email Kubota directly about a block heater for your machine.

My Kubota L2550DT has a block heater. I don't know if it is factory or not. I have some pic's if you want them. Hope this helps. NorminN.B.http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g56/NorminNB/KubotaTractorBlockHeater2011-01-25002.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g56/NorminNB/KubotaTractorBlockHeater2011-01-25001.jpg

KUBOTA
M Series (3 & 4 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100093 400 120 3/4" NPT Immersion
Installation Information: Install in front.
B Series
(Except 2 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100093 400 120 3/4" NPT Immersion
Installation Information: Install in Right Front
(RF). Use 1" x 3/4" pipe bushing.
L Series
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100093 400 120 3/4" NPT Immersion
Installation Information:
Install in Right Front (RF). Use 1" x 3/4" pipe
bushing.

Z400, Z482, D722
(Super Mini/New Super Mini 2 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100099 400 120 30mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.
Z600 & ZH600
(Super Mini/New Super Mini 2 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100093 400 120 3/4" NPT Immersion
Installation Information: Install Right Front
(RF). Use 1" x 3/4" pipe bushing.
D600, D640, WG600, D662, D722, DG750, DF750, WG750
(Super Mini/New Super Mini 3 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100099 400 120 30mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.
V800
(Super Mini/New Super Mini 4 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100099 400 120 30mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.
D905, DH905, D1005, DH1005, D1105, V1205, VH1205,
V1305, VH1305, V1505
(Super 5 Series)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100003 400 120 1" NPT Immersion
Installation Information: Install in Left Front
(LF).
D3000B, D3200B
(3 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100003 400 120 1" NPT Immersion
Installation Information: Install in front.
D1102, D1302, D1402, D1403, D1703, S2800
(3 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100025 400 120 35mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.
Point element 2 o'clock.
D650, D750, D850, DH850, D950
(3 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100093 400 120 3/4" NPT Immersion
Installation Information: Install in Right Front
(RF). Use 1" x 3/4" pipe bushing.
V4000B, V4300B
(3 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100003 400 120 1" NPT Immersion
Installation Information: Install in front.

V1100, VH1100, V1200
(4 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100093 400 120 3/4" NPT Immersion
Installation Instructions: Install in Right Front
(RF). Use 1" x 3/4" pipe bushing.
V1702, V1703, V1902, V1903, V2003, V2003T, V2203
(4 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100025 400 120 35mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.
Point element 2 o'clock.
V3300
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100093 400 120 3/4" NPT Immersion
Installation Information: Install in Right Front
(RF). Use 1" x 3/4" pipe bushing.
S2800 (6 cyl.), F2803 (5 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100025 400 120 35mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.

Paul, did you get a look at Normin's pictures? Looks like Kubota has a pipe plug, right behind the dipstick, lets see if I can get the link posted:
Normins second picture

and the first:
right behind the dipstick

corrected link (I hope) for the first picture:
first picture

I don't know about Kubota but I installed a 600 watt block heater in my N/H 1715 this fall took about 15 min. Used a 1 9/16" just knocked out freeze Plug and installed. would do like DIYDAVE says knock ou a plug and check it. I just plug in for about 1 1/2 hours when temp is in the teens and it starts like it was 90 deg.

Thanks, guys, for all the ideas! Thanks, NorminN.B. and DiyDave for the photos. That heater is exactly where one of the three frost plugs is located. There are NO threaded holes I can use anywhere. Oldmax, I could swear I was looking at a closeup of my engine, except for the colour. Looks like these little heaters are the way to go. Buickanddeere, that Philips and Temro info is excellent, but again my engine seems to lack the threaded hole I need.

I'm heading to town tomorrow, and will pick up both a 1 1/4 in. rad-hose type heater (400W, I think), a 32mm frost plug type heater (400 or 600W) and some spare frost plugs. Then I'm all set to experiment. I'll let you all know how it went once I'm done. Paul

I don't have a clue how you missed these freeze
plug/front plug heaters I posted?
They do not use threaded holes in the cylinder
block.
Again...........

Z400, Z482, D722
(Super Mini/New Super Mini 2 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100099 400 120 30mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.

D600, D640, WG600, D662, D722, DG750, DF750, WG750
(Super Mini/New Super Mini 3 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100099 400 120 30mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.

V800
(Super Mini/New Super Mini 4 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100099 400 120 30mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.

1102, D1302, D1402, D1403, D1703, S2800
(3 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100025 400 120 35mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.
Point element 2 o'clock.

V1702, V1703, V1902, V1903, V2003, V2003T, V2203
(4 cylinder)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100025 400 120 35mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.
Point element 2 o'clock

S2800 (6 cyl.), F2803 (5 cyl.)
Part No. Watt Volt Diameter Type
3100025 400 120 35mm Freeze Plug
Installation Information: Install in back of head.

Oldmax, I got a question for you. Seeing how your plug wire is pointing up, I was wondering, since I installed mine 180 degrees opposite, to the way yours looks, does the loop on your frost plug heater point up, or down. I might have made the wrong assumption on installation, and maybe I was right, but do your instructions say anything about which way the loop of the heater should point?