onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
I keep thinking about one and would like to know. Are they pressurized or just a tank with water level maintained? Would they be able to push water up to a second floor?
- Thread starter onefarmer
- Start date
The ones that I was looking at aren't under pressure. They just have a water tank with a fire box in the middle of it. The hot water is circulated with a pump. I was discussing it with my insurance agent and was surprised to learn that they are getting hard to cover. He represents many different underwritters and said that he only has one that will cover them. I think Farm Bureau will cover them, but when I went away from them to my current agent my homeowners insurance premium was cut in half.
Uncle Ernice
Member
Why does an outdoor wood burner affect home insurance adversly? Because they are not automatic and may freeze if neglected? I would think they would be safer fire hazzard wise.
Pair-a-dice farm
Well-known Member
When i bought mine all of the stoves that I looked at were not pressurized but there may be some that are. My house insurance wasn't affected but the stove but I do have a separate policy that covers it for $25 or so a year. Mine has a circulating pump that circulates the water.
Both mine and my parents (different brands) are not under pressure. Water is circulated by a pump. The pump would have no trouble pushing the water to a second story level if that is the way your home is designed, mine however, is heated with a plenum (sp?) in the forced air system. So the hot water is pumped into my forced air system, and then the fan from the forced air furnace forces the hot air through the heating duct work.
ironandsteel
Member
I installed a Central Boiler E-classic 2300 3 years ago. Their current model is the e-classic 2400. These are cleaner burning than the original outdoor furnaces, and have an EPA certification. I believe that some states don't allow new installations of the older style without the EPA cert.
Anyway- in pretty much all situations, you are better off installing a heat exchanger. Basically, you don't touch the plumbing that circulates water in your radiators at all. Instead, the wood furnace circulates its water through a heat exchanger. The other side of the heat exchanger circulates through the water jacket of your existing boiler.
You put a Taco 007 pump at the wood furnace and it only has to push water into the heat exchanger in your basement.
These things ain't cheap- but we were spending $4k per heating season on propane. Now, the heat is free (except for labor of getting the wood).
Regarding heating your domestic hot water, you buy a "sidearm" heat exchanger that indirectly preheats the water going to your existing hot water heater. The wood furnace water travels through this on its way to the heat exchanger.
A big expense is the super insulated double pipe that sends the water to and from your house. But this is crucial!
Anyway- in pretty much all situations, you are better off installing a heat exchanger. Basically, you don't touch the plumbing that circulates water in your radiators at all. Instead, the wood furnace circulates its water through a heat exchanger. The other side of the heat exchanger circulates through the water jacket of your existing boiler.
You put a Taco 007 pump at the wood furnace and it only has to push water into the heat exchanger in your basement.
These things ain't cheap- but we were spending $4k per heating season on propane. Now, the heat is free (except for labor of getting the wood).
Regarding heating your domestic hot water, you buy a "sidearm" heat exchanger that indirectly preheats the water going to your existing hot water heater. The wood furnace water travels through this on its way to the heat exchanger.
A big expense is the super insulated double pipe that sends the water to and from your house. But this is crucial!
Lesformore
Member
Most hot water heating systems, indoor or outdoor fired have a via leakes etc. This is done through a pressure reducing valve set at 15 psi.The system is protected by a relief valve set to open at 30 psi. The pressure will increase as the water is heated. Most systems use a glycol water mix to prevent freezing if theres a failure. The system needs to be isolated from your home water supply by a double check valve to prevent the glycol from getting into you household water if there is a pressure drop in the house.
My agent and I both thought that having the fire outside would be better as well. The story that he got was too many people were burning trash in them and the sparks were setting pastures and yards on fire from the burning paper and cardboard that was coming out of the short chimney. I would think that if a little bit of a longer chimney and a spark arrestor were used it would be a non-issue, but I can promise that I don't think like an insurance person!
steve terplak
Member
i have a wood master - non-pressurized system
very much like the central boiler one described below - heat exchanger into the radiator, heats hot water as well
there is a company - i want to say it is aquatherm - that sells pressurized systems w/ no heat exchanger - i think they called it a "closed" system- circulates directly in your radiator - remember an advantage to this system was you could buy the boiler w/o the metal hut around it, just w/ insulation and install it in a garage/shed, by doing this you saved $1500 or so
you can find pages and pages and pages of research about if OWF are a good alternative, how dirty or how c lean they are etc...
i would not go backto paying for oil
but if you do get an OWF a few things, and i think owners will agree,
a) like said below - do not skimp on the insulated pipe running to the heat exchanger, it is worth the investement...i lose a degree or two on a 75" run...that"s it.
b) only purchase an OWF if you have a readily availible supply of wood...they are hungry!
c) do not install if you have "neighbors"...people putting them in bad spots is what gives them a bad name, when they are burning they burn clean and hot but when the stove kicks on initially and kick off, they give a burst of smoke
d) do your research...it is tough because every company has literature supporting why theirs is the best...but it is a lot like tractors - where is your closest, reliable dealer. who is still going to be there in 5-7-15 years.
very much like the central boiler one described below - heat exchanger into the radiator, heats hot water as well
there is a company - i want to say it is aquatherm - that sells pressurized systems w/ no heat exchanger - i think they called it a "closed" system- circulates directly in your radiator - remember an advantage to this system was you could buy the boiler w/o the metal hut around it, just w/ insulation and install it in a garage/shed, by doing this you saved $1500 or so
you can find pages and pages and pages of research about if OWF are a good alternative, how dirty or how c lean they are etc...
i would not go backto paying for oil
but if you do get an OWF a few things, and i think owners will agree,
a) like said below - do not skimp on the insulated pipe running to the heat exchanger, it is worth the investement...i lose a degree or two on a 75" run...that"s it.
b) only purchase an OWF if you have a readily availible supply of wood...they are hungry!
c) do not install if you have "neighbors"...people putting them in bad spots is what gives them a bad name, when they are burning they burn clean and hot but when the stove kicks on initially and kick off, they give a burst of smoke
d) do your research...it is tough because every company has literature supporting why theirs is the best...but it is a lot like tractors - where is your closest, reliable dealer. who is still going to be there in 5-7-15 years.
The Pennsylvanian
Member
I put in a Central Boiler unit 10 years ago - best thing I ever did. I have baseboard hot water and use my 25 year old combination furnace as my holding tank. One line in to furnace and one out for return. Furnace has hot water coil in it so that's what I still use - no heat exchanger needed. Never run out of hot water.
I have three Grundfos circulator pumps running off of that old furnace, one for each floor. The Central Boiler is a vented-open system but the gauge on my old furnace registers about 10 psi. I pressure filled the indoor system to begin with and then shut off the auto fill valve. My system hold 400 gallons and I haven't added but maybe 2 gallons over the last couple of years.
When I put this system in, I didn't have heat in my detached garage so I ran a line 150 ft. to it. I then installed a heat exchanger blower motor unit and can heat it up really fast with that. Normally I have the Taco 009 pump (for the garage) on a timer so that when its cold, water is circulating through the garage's copper pipe and that alone will always keep the temp above 45 degrees in there. I don't use antifreeze in the system as I have a generator backup, just in case.
My wood is "free" and that's a good thing as it will use wood - however, it's only as good as how well the unit and lines are insulated along with your house's insulation. The more times my indoor circulators run, the more demand for hot water and thus, wood.
I have three Grundfos circulator pumps running off of that old furnace, one for each floor. The Central Boiler is a vented-open system but the gauge on my old furnace registers about 10 psi. I pressure filled the indoor system to begin with and then shut off the auto fill valve. My system hold 400 gallons and I haven't added but maybe 2 gallons over the last couple of years.
When I put this system in, I didn't have heat in my detached garage so I ran a line 150 ft. to it. I then installed a heat exchanger blower motor unit and can heat it up really fast with that. Normally I have the Taco 009 pump (for the garage) on a timer so that when its cold, water is circulating through the garage's copper pipe and that alone will always keep the temp above 45 degrees in there. I don't use antifreeze in the system as I have a generator backup, just in case.
My wood is "free" and that's a good thing as it will use wood - however, it's only as good as how well the unit and lines are insulated along with your house's insulation. The more times my indoor circulators run, the more demand for hot water and thus, wood.
randy hall
Member
if you have hot water heat in your house you do not want an open system. your pipes will rust out from oxygen being introduced from an open system. plumbers like the aqua therm for this reason. it is pressurised so no air like an open system.
Ivan in Mich
Member
I have a Woodmaster 4400 and it is not a pressureized system. Been using it for 5 years have my own wood so we heat our hot water all year long with it. We have a plate type heater for hot water not a side arm. Make sure you underground pipe is well insulated. I built a wood processor to cut my wood with so I am all set when old age sets in which is already started.
ironandsteel
Member
Well, it is an ancient frame farmhouse with many additions. About 4000 sqft. 2 propane furnaces, and an indirect fired hot water tank- so the furnace would run year round to heat the domestic HW. And we have a propane range.
$4k was the figure I recall, but it was hard to measure because we have a 1000gal tank and it goes a long time between fillings. I may be off on that figure- I agree it does sound high. Its been 3 years since I bought the OWF.
In any event, we like the OWF and we now keep the house quite warm, whereas we used to keep it chilly to save $$.
$4k was the figure I recall, but it was hard to measure because we have a 1000gal tank and it goes a long time between fillings. I may be off on that figure- I agree it does sound high. Its been 3 years since I bought the OWF.
In any event, we like the OWF and we now keep the house quite warm, whereas we used to keep it chilly to save $$.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
you can use a open system you just have to use a water to water heat exchanger on your closed system
Should be no presure in outdoor wood boiler,most have open top where thesteam gets out if you over heat or somthing goes wrong.
no problem pushing it up 2 levels
If your going to spend the money get a GASIFIRE unit burns 1/2 the wood of the others regardless of make.
The "Portage and main" Gasifire will have no sparks coming out ever regardless of how much GARBAGE you would burn.You can hold your hand in the chimeny at any time yet the fire burns at 2500 degrees.I'm sure others do the same but have no experience with the rest.
no problem pushing it up 2 levels
If your going to spend the money get a GASIFIRE unit burns 1/2 the wood of the others regardless of make.
The "Portage and main" Gasifire will have no sparks coming out ever regardless of how much GARBAGE you would burn.You can hold your hand in the chimeny at any time yet the fire burns at 2500 degrees.I'm sure others do the same but have no experience with the rest.
OP
OP
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
Thank You for the input everyone!
I'm in an old farm house and there isn't any good way of putting forced air heat up stairs, but I could run a couple water lines up pretty easy.
I already have a wood furnace but it will need replacing some time. I thought if I put in a boiler, maybe I'd y off and run line up there.
I'm in an old farm house and there isn't any good way of putting forced air heat up stairs, but I could run a couple water lines up pretty easy.
I already have a wood furnace but it will need replacing some time. I thought if I put in a boiler, maybe I'd y off and run line up there.
mnoiverguy
New User
You will only have pressure if it is a sealed system.
Shetland Sheepdog
Well-known Member
We have an OWF and an indoor combi wood/oil warm air furnace. As said in previous posts, we have heat exchangers in the plenum of the warm air furnace. We also have a heat exchanger on our electric water heater, and the electricity to it has been disconnected. We have a radiator with fan in the utility room (formerly unheated garage space). This is part of the loop from/to the OWF. we have burned no wood in the WAF, and only 400 +/- gallons of oil in 10 years! We have used no electricity for water heating for 5+/- years. Now the best part! We have a 20'x20' living room on the second floor. This room was finished after the OWF was installed. The room has radiant heat in the floor. It is a closed loop with expansion tank, etc. This is heated via a plate heat exchanger in the OWF loop. More details on request.
Dave
Dave
When we moved to our farm, the house was only heated with an outdoor wood boiler. It had a Taco 007 1/25 HP circulator, and was only able to push water up to the first floor. I replaced the circulator with a Taco 009 1/8 HP (bronze), and that was able to move hot water up to the second floor. We used it for a few years before moving to geothermal. However, I recall that I had to put automatic bleeder valves on the second floor radiators, a check valve on the input, and a zone valve on the return (so that the second floor water won't "run downhill"). But I am not a real plumber, so maybe there was a simpler way.
You can see head / flow curves at the Taco website:
Taco Website
You can see head / flow curves at the Taco website:
Taco Website
My Taco 007-f5 can push water to the second floor? I also have a Bell & Gossette on my oil boiler its running at 1600rpm and can go up to 2480 but the adjusting dial/screw on it is siezed up. The Taco runs faster anyway, 3250 I put a adjustable power switch on it, like a lit dimmer switch so I can run it fast or slower, then decided it might not be good for the circulator pump, so I leave it all the way on.
DiggerDick
Member
Have had an outdoor wood fired boiler for several years. Has an open system. I have 2 sets of lines coming off, one goes to a heat exchanger in house basement-LP furnace with forced air. The other lines go to shop over a hundred feet away- there I hung insulated pipe in trusses of machine shed to ceiling mounted heat exchanger in shop. Separate pumps on each system and one is going downhill 8 feet to basement and other uphill 12 feet to shop, no special valves or controls on either line.
Some of them are a closed system. I used to have an Aqua-Therm wood stove an the system was pressurized. I really liked being able to run hotter water temperatures. It means you need less heat exchanger area. It was a good stove I just went with a corn boiler instead.
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