Hi All. My local dealer of Oliver parts (20 miles away) suggested the other day that I could use SAE 20 motor oil (if I could find it) in my 1755 instead of type 55 hydro oil. Are they that similar or is/are there differences in the additives ? I'm using JD Hyguard now which is $20 cheaper per 5 gallons than type 55 not to mention the JD dealer is only 9 miles away. But times are getting tougher and I'm looking for an even cheaper alternative. I tryed the farm and fleet brand Harvest King but it was way to thick for allseason use. I'm NOT asking for application specific suggestions just the differences between hydro oil and motor oil. Thanks for any opinions on this!
- Thread starter Randy-IA
- Start date
Wisconsin Cowman
Member
You can use the JD Hyguard for the hydraulic oil in your 1755. JD Hyguard is better then using the SAE 20 motor oil. Or if you have access to Cenex brand oil you can use quick lift hydraulic oil.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Generally hydraulic oils have more anti-foaming agents, possibly different or more anti-wear agents, which can be a benefit for most hydraulic systems. Also a few like Hytran can keep a relatively large amount of water in suspension, thereby insuring the pump/valve has at least some oil lubrication rather than occasionally ingesting only water. The motor oil detergents are not a benefit, nor are the additives which neutralize the combustion by-products. Personally I substitute Low-Vis Hy-Gard for SAE 10W hydraulic oil, and as you already do, use standard Hy-Gard for situations requiring a heavier hyd oil. But in a low pressure, lower flow system, most any oil will work satisfactory.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Not all motor oil is wet wet clutch/wet brake compatible.Motorcycle engine oil sometimes is.
Save $200 on oil and pay $5000 for a transmission rebuild?
Save $200 on oil and pay $5000 for a transmission rebuild?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
bd if you knew anything about an Oliver you'd know that the hyd. oil and trans./diff oil is separate, that said hygard, hytran, quick lift or any good universal- trans draulic fluid (jd 303 equivelent) will be ok, as for motor oil some newer jd const. equip. is using motor oil for hyd. oil, something about improved lube for brass bushings
Why are you consuming so much hydraulic oil with ONE tractor, that this is going to be a major $$ savings?
The cheaper alternatives are:
1. Fix the leaks.
2. Stop changing the oil unnecessarily.
If you're changing the oil on a maintenance schedule, rethink the logic behind that. Changing and throwing away umpteen gallons of perfectly good oil just because it's been XXX hours or 1 year or whatever is a huge waste.
You'll never save as much using cheaper oil as you would by not changing it in the first place. Unlike an engine, where you have soot and other combustion byproducts being shoved into the crankcase, hydraulic oil just circulates. Start clean, and it stays clean.
If your oil is getting contaminated with water, figure out why. Condensation is a BS. Leaving the tractor out in the rain is where 99% of the water comes from. If you can cover it up, do it.
I know if Dad changed all the hydraulic oil in every tractor on the "proper" maintenance schedule, he'd have gone broke 30 years ago. Fact of the matter is, the hydraulic oil on most of the tractors has been changed at most ONCE in 35 years, and it's all clean and water-free. IMHO, the big difference is the tractors never sit out in the rain. We're not known for having a dry climate.
The cheaper alternatives are:
1. Fix the leaks.
2. Stop changing the oil unnecessarily.
If you're changing the oil on a maintenance schedule, rethink the logic behind that. Changing and throwing away umpteen gallons of perfectly good oil just because it's been XXX hours or 1 year or whatever is a huge waste.
You'll never save as much using cheaper oil as you would by not changing it in the first place. Unlike an engine, where you have soot and other combustion byproducts being shoved into the crankcase, hydraulic oil just circulates. Start clean, and it stays clean.
If your oil is getting contaminated with water, figure out why. Condensation is a BS. Leaving the tractor out in the rain is where 99% of the water comes from. If you can cover it up, do it.
I know if Dad changed all the hydraulic oil in every tractor on the "proper" maintenance schedule, he'd have gone broke 30 years ago. Fact of the matter is, the hydraulic oil on most of the tractors has been changed at most ONCE in 35 years, and it's all clean and water-free. IMHO, the big difference is the tractors never sit out in the rain. We're not known for having a dry climate.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Motor oil is copper metal friendly and rated GL-1 or GL-4 for gear box protection.
Motor oil with the MA or MA2 spec is wet clutch compatible.
Motor oil with the MA or MA2 spec is wet clutch compatible.
Hello:
Generally hydraulic oil is what is called a bright stock mineral oil.
It is the precursor to motor oils which have additives for detergency (which keeps solids in suspension), viscosity index improvers (this is where the 'W' often comes from as in 10W-40), wear additives (such as moly and zinc to provide wear resistance on areas such as lifters on camshafts) and anti corrosion additives. It generally consists of medium to long chain normal paraffins.
Bright stock mineral oil prior to today's modern motor oils was the beginning point for the formulation of motor oils.
Today's 'synthetic' motor oils are still medium to long chain normal paraffins, but rather than being made by distillation from paraffin base crude oils they are synthesized to gain greater control on the chain length and degree of isomerization and branching.
That being said, an SAE 20 nondetergent with a rating no higher than SA or SB could be used as a replacement for a bright stock mineral hydraulic oil.
This could be used in a very antique tractor which is used for show.
But as another poster said, "You are going to save $200 on oil and spend $5,000 on a transmission repair?"
hth
pkurilecz
Generally hydraulic oil is what is called a bright stock mineral oil.
It is the precursor to motor oils which have additives for detergency (which keeps solids in suspension), viscosity index improvers (this is where the 'W' often comes from as in 10W-40), wear additives (such as moly and zinc to provide wear resistance on areas such as lifters on camshafts) and anti corrosion additives. It generally consists of medium to long chain normal paraffins.
Bright stock mineral oil prior to today's modern motor oils was the beginning point for the formulation of motor oils.
Today's 'synthetic' motor oils are still medium to long chain normal paraffins, but rather than being made by distillation from paraffin base crude oils they are synthesized to gain greater control on the chain length and degree of isomerization and branching.
That being said, an SAE 20 nondetergent with a rating no higher than SA or SB could be used as a replacement for a bright stock mineral hydraulic oil.
This could be used in a very antique tractor which is used for show.
But as another poster said, "You are going to save $200 on oil and spend $5,000 on a transmission repair?"
hth
pkurilecz
Hi , Yeah it uses some oil from the service valves but the problem here was I replenished the last few times with Harvest King oil and when the temp dropped to near zero I was getting cavitation or bypassing (I don't know which) so I drained the oil and replaced the filter. The system uses 7 gallons so having an extra three gallons around doesn't bother me. I'll use it up sooner or later and with the way oil prices are moving again I'd rather stock up now. :*)
Hi, The hydraulic system on a 1755 is a stand alone system though there are a couple of brakes and clutches in it- IE: the pto . The other driven unit is the PS. The brakes themselves are hydraulic actuated dry disc. The final drive is run in gear oil. The 3-speed is TF (dexron/mercon). And the fresh motor takes Rottella 15-40. My mistake was presuming the farm and fleet hydraulic oil was the right grade instead of doing more research. But I agree with you about the economics lesson. I just don't believe that type 55 is necessary when a lower priced hydraulic oil could be just as good. And with today's standards compared with 35+ year old standards I was looking for a cheaper alternative. But my question was more centered on what he said about the motor oil. I know now I wasn't clear about my intentions. I had no intention of following his suggestion but after re-reading my post I see that that could have been misconstrued.
Can't answer that, for that matter though the primary drive clutch in all the friction cranes I operate are run in diesel fuel- to eliminate all or mostly all slippage I guess. And for improved cooling in case of slippage since it's a pressurized system straight from the fuel tank with it's own filter setup and pump.
Thanks! I knew that about hydraulic oil but didn't know the real differences of the additives between the two. As for my system I don't know what is considered high or low pressure. My '74 1755 pumps 20gpm at rated speed of 2400rpm with a pressure setting at 2200 psi. Compared to an excavator that's low pressure but compared to other tractors in the same time period ....???
Hi, We used to be able to get Cenex but no more ...at least not nearby. I'm not comfortable using brands I'm unfamiliar with and by using the Harvest King I just reinforced that feeling. It was the first time I strayed from the type 55 or hygard in my tractor and it didn't work. I wasn't intending to use the motor oil but I did want to be able to understand at least the rudimentary differences if not the more technical ones too besides color and smell lol. I am looking for a cheaper alternative hydraulic oil though that I'd be comfortable with using and which is available locally. I'll continue using hy-gard in the meantime. I know it works since I'd been using it for years in all weather conditions. Momentary lapse in judgment. Just like a marriage ... if ya don't stray life will be good.
Wel they where hyds systems just low GPM and low PSI but they did the work and where by far better then that long handle with the hand grip to lift things with. Ya now days I use UTF in the Olivers and most other tractor as well that way one fluid fits most and I have less jugs of oil to worry about
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
A twenty-two hundred relief setting is not a low pressure system. An 800-1000 PSI and perhaps 1500 PSI I would consider low. The 2200 psi might not be high pressure but certainly is considered in the medium pressure range and worthy of a good hudraulic oil. I agree with the others if going with 20W motor oil, get non-detergent, but I wouldn't go that route with this "medium" pressure system. I would use a good quality hydraulic or universal. hydraulic/transmission oil.
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