12V Condensor questions

What does the CONDENSOR do in the distributor? Is there a way to verify that it is working properly?
Do they just go bad in 6 months or less? Put a new set in after fightingthe 706 for 3 days in the cold. That is what I found was the problem just put a new set in about 6 months ago.

Thanks in advance
Matt

Replacements condensers seem to be a huge discussion as they sure seem to make plenty of them that fail too soon. I had one failed on the first half day of tractor ride replaced with new one that was three yrs ago. Another one in riding lawnmower lasted 20 min Guys say just dont bet money on a new one for lasting a long time.

The condenser is nothing more than the electronic version of a shock absorber.

It "smooths out" the circuit flow.

Allan

The condenser is nothing more than the electronic version of a shock absorber.

It "smooths out" the circuit flow.

Allan

The condenser acts like an electrical shock absorber so the points do not wear out so soon and it stops the flow of electrons instantly so the coil magnetism collapses on itself rapidly thus producing a high voltage spark. Plus it "resonates" with the coil to produce a longer lasting spark.
Condensers can be tested for their capacity, if they are leaking(insulation), and if it is shorted out. I have a Merc-O-Tronic tester to perform those tests.
Find an old timer or shop that knows battery-coil systems to help you.

Some last for 50 years and some don't last 10 days. All depends on quality of construction.

Main thing to check is . . . for a dead short (with ohmmeter), and for capacitance in microfarads (MFD).

Best way to check is with a capacitor checker.
There are special purpose meters made just for capacitors in ingnition systems.

Also, now adays, just about any cheap $3 mulitmeter has a capacitance-meter.

A meter made just of ignition system capacitors does theree things. 1st you charge the capacitor snd check to see how long it will hold a charge. 2nd - you check for a dead short. 3rd - you check for MFD.

Juat about all battery ignitions use capacitors with .2 to .3 MFD. Magnetos .19 to .4 MFD.

I agree with the shock absorber definition.

If a condenser is not of the right size or working properly you will generally see point set failure, i.e. burned points much more quickly than otherwise.

Unlike many, if the point set doesn"t show signs of condenser failure I don"t replace it when replacing a point set.

So--have you been bitten yet by a condenser holding a charge? While attending a mechanics school we had a lot of fun leaving loaded ones on the floor for new students to find. Can you say "flying condensers" and utterances.

As good of a layman's explanation as any I've ever heard.

Short answers for you diagnosis:

Dead condensor = weak, intermittent spark

Shorted condensor = no spark at all

Weak or incorrect MFD = arcing at the points and shortening of points-life

Very well put.

YOUR QUESTIONS

1) What does the CONDENSOR do in the distributor?

1) It greatly increases the life of the points by absorbing (shock absorber analogy) some of the energy stored in the coils low voltage primary (+ to - terminal) as opposed to it all being rapidly discharged by the arc of current (w/lots of heat) across the points. It can be considered initially an empty electron bank sitting there waiting to absorb n suck up electrons from the current which wants to continue flowing when the primary circuit is interrupted due to the opening of the points.


2) It increases the energy available for discharge across the spark plug gap as opposed to no condendor being there at all. If theres no condensor or its rating is too small, she still sparks, but theres less spark energy and the points burn up quickly. If the condensor is too big she may not spark at all (depends on condensor size) but the points last a longgggggggg time. It controls the rate of discharge of the energy stored in the coils LV primary magnetic field so as to maximize the energy transfer over to its HV secondary, which is then available for discharge across the plugs gap.

QUESTIONS

Is there a way to verify that it is working properly?

You can use a digital analog ohm meter like my Old Simpson 260 (or other meters for that matter) to see if its BAD, but that dont tell you if its GOOD. They make actual capacitor testers that are more accurate and give you the rating and leak down etc., which the ohm meter can NOT. Basically, it can NOT test out as a dead short to steady DC, if so its BAD ITS SHORTED OUT, it needs to read as an OPEN (towards infinite resistance) circuit (once charged) using a DC ohm meter (R x 1 Scale). You can also use an analog DC ohm meter on the R x 10,000 scale "kick back test" to see an indication of its charging ability.


YES they can be new out of the box and BAD but if its of good quality they can last for yearssssssssssss.

Hope this helps

Best wishes

John T

i wish i had a nickel for every condensor that was dead fresh out of the box

IT IS THERE TO SEPERATE ONE EVENT FROM ANOTHER . OR IT TAKES THE TAIL OFF OF THE SPARK.SO THAT A NEW SPARK CAN OCCUR..BOTH IN MAGS. AND BATT IGN SYSTEMS

Little Brute Model S19. Made in Iowa. Bought it used for $10 in 1969 and still works great.

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&amp;current=capchecker1.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>

Stihl service tool for checking caps on chainsaws, and . . . checking points and setting timing with capacitor left in place.
Stihl model # 0000 890 8905. Bought it new in 1969 from Stihl in West Germany.

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&amp;current=Sthil.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

Back in the sixties at an auto tech school the instructor said that the condensor rarely failed so things must have changed over the years. If I remember right he also said that the condensor also controls which side of the points the pitting occurs and not to change the condenser if the pitting was not excessive on one side. Of course that was fifty years ago.

Still true today. When the points open the current wants to continue flowing in the direction it was i.e. through the coil (coil has x stored energy) on way to ground so theres a small arc at the points and X current for x time INTO the condensor. Then the condensor is charged up so when the points close the energy stored in the condensor causes an opposite direction current flow OUT OF the condensor. Nowwwwwww if the condensor is the correct size as matched to the coil,,,,the current/time it pumps out (when points close) should correspond to that which got pumped in (when points opened) so the pitting/wear should be nearly equal on BOTH sides. If thats the case that tells me the condensor is good and sized correctly buttttttttt if theres a big hole/cavity on one side and a build up/mound on the other side, I think the condensor is sized incorrect and/or bad.

That make sense to anybody?????? Im NOT swearing to this, but Ive read it before and it seems reasonable.

John T ever curious

HI Crem: Your instructor was right when he said NOT to change the condenser if the pitting was not excessive on one side.
The reason being that by luck the condenser was just right in value to handel the current from the coil at the low frequency that tractors run. It was "in resonance" with the coil. This was a break through back in the 1800's which helped start the modern age of electronics. The "wireless" early radio etc and on to the 1900's etc. A coil and a condenser in resonance is the heart of early radio transmitting ability.. ag. ret.

John T
That"s exactly the way It was explained to me about 50 years ago. It was always interesting to examine points that had a lot of hours on them to see which way the transfer was if any. Way back AC Delco made three different sets of points to fit GM distributors, the heavy set, I think the pt # was D-106HD with their standard condenser would last 70/80 thousand miles and the tip would still look good but the rubbing block would be wore off.

Two plates separated by dielectric. From Cass Tech high school in the fifties. Known to allow electrons to pass without noticeable current flow or something like that. In a pinch charge one on 12 volts(if within range)and stick a set of magnetic earphones or speaker across it and hear the dischage.(Long time ago) Dave

Perhaps you can answer this for me. A condensor has only one wire so does it have to be grounded someplace, to the coil or elseware? Or would it work without being grounded as just hanging by the wire? Not much on engine spark and don't know if not having a good ground if it needs one will it cause running problems? Hard starting Kohlers in Cub Cadets. I have asked this question on here before but never got an answer that I could understand. Have no idea how to use one of those meeters.