- Thread starter Mark W.
- Start date
I use it in the older tractors like Farmall M and Ac Wd's with no problem, but in my larger tractors like 4020 John Deere 686/886 Internationals, I find it will not withstand the warm temperatures of constant pto, hydraulic use of summer field work. Oil breaks down and plugs the filters and screens with black flakes. Hydraulics then overheat.
Think about it this way. Oil is like battery's. There are only 4 or 5 company's that refine oil so that tells you that that oil came from one of those 5 company's and all of them meet the SAE and other standards so buying it from one place over the other pretty much does not matter any more. And an Oil like UTF or the gear oil that is even less likely no to be of a good quaintly.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Mark In the years I was in the oil business, I have been in several oil processing plants. In each of the plants they were blending different brands of oil at the same time. The base oil stock came from the same tank. It was blended with additives to meet each oil companys needs, some companys required a larger additive package than others. When they went out the door they all met the minimum requirements for the application they were designed for. Most exceeded them. Look on the container and see if the oil meets the requirement for the application you intend to put it in. If it does, it should work for you.
Look at the specs and not the title of "combination hydraulic and transmission oil."
Tractor Supply has been having a sale now for 6 months on 5 gallon pails of 303 trans-hydraulic oil. Even though they call it "universal", it is not and cannot be used in many tractors with wet clutches and/or brakes. It is not the same as most other combo oils. Just read the specs on the pail and you'll see. Much depends on what tractor you're going to use it in.
Tractor Supply has been having a sale now for 6 months on 5 gallon pails of 303 trans-hydraulic oil. Even though they call it "universal", it is not and cannot be used in many tractors with wet clutches and/or brakes. It is not the same as most other combo oils. Just read the specs on the pail and you'll see. Much depends on what tractor you're going to use it in.
I was at the TSC store in central New York, and also in northern Michigan.
Both had these two "combo" oils. Note that that many tractors do not allow the cheaper 303 oil.
If you CAN use 303, it's a good deal.
ACCEL 303 Tractor Fluid is designed as a replacement fluid and universal lubricant for
farm and industrial tractors and construction equipment. ACCEL quality tractor fluid is a
blend of base stocks with an EP (extreme pressure) and AW (anti-wear) additive package
and highly active rust, and corrosion and oxidation inhibitors - all in a balanced
performance package to insure lubricity, wear protection, compatibility with seals, o-rings
and packing materials. ACCEL quality tractor fluid is an economical multiple service oil
for use in the majority of hydraulic, wet brake and transmission requirements of most
equipment requiring a universal tractor fluid. SKU Number: 8060004
$20 - $25
Traveller® Premium Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid is a specially formulated,
premium multigrade (SAE 10W-20) fluid blended with the highest quality lubricating oils
and the most technological advanced additive system. Provides superior protection and
performance for modern farm equipment employing a common sump to lubricate
hydrostatic transmissions, differentials, wet brakes, hydraulics and final drive gears.
$39.99, or on sale for $35.99 SKU Number: 0806391
Both had these two "combo" oils. Note that that many tractors do not allow the cheaper 303 oil.
If you CAN use 303, it's a good deal.
ACCEL 303 Tractor Fluid is designed as a replacement fluid and universal lubricant for
farm and industrial tractors and construction equipment. ACCEL quality tractor fluid is a
blend of base stocks with an EP (extreme pressure) and AW (anti-wear) additive package
and highly active rust, and corrosion and oxidation inhibitors - all in a balanced
performance package to insure lubricity, wear protection, compatibility with seals, o-rings
and packing materials. ACCEL quality tractor fluid is an economical multiple service oil
for use in the majority of hydraulic, wet brake and transmission requirements of most
equipment requiring a universal tractor fluid. SKU Number: 8060004
$20 - $25
Traveller® Premium Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid is a specially formulated,
premium multigrade (SAE 10W-20) fluid blended with the highest quality lubricating oils
and the most technological advanced additive system. Provides superior protection and
performance for modern farm equipment employing a common sump to lubricate
hydrostatic transmissions, differentials, wet brakes, hydraulics and final drive gears.
$39.99, or on sale for $35.99 SKU Number: 0806391
Guess I've never seen the 303 in our local TSC stores but it is in the latest ad. Orscheln has always carried a 303 in a yellow pail. Cheapest is usually $22 on sale. That is what I use in my 2606. Mine calls for IH Hytran. The 303 pail says it meets and exceeds the specs for IH hytran and the same for a JD oil.
That said, mine isn't a hydrostat but straight gear drive and dry brakes. I don't know what the hydrostats use.
If it is the same stuff as Orscheln 303 and meets IH hytran specs, I may pick up one as I just added my last bucket. I have a couple hydraulic cylinders that leak more than it uses. In the 3 years I've had the 2606, I noticed about 10 empty pails stacked along the barn wall the other day. I keep mine 5 gals over full.
That said, mine isn't a hydrostat but straight gear drive and dry brakes. I don't know what the hydrostats use.
If it is the same stuff as Orscheln 303 and meets IH hytran specs, I may pick up one as I just added my last bucket. I have a couple hydraulic cylinders that leak more than it uses. In the 3 years I've had the 2606, I noticed about 10 empty pails stacked along the barn wall the other day. I keep mine 5 gals over full.
Only thing I ever found I didnt like with the Traveller brand from TSC was it seemed I had a little more chatter from my wet brakes. Couldnt tell that it didnt do what its supposed to do. As long as it meets specs I dont see what the big fuss is about oil. Price is right on that too, the last univ tractor hydraulic fluid I got was Hallmark by Marathon at 277 per 55 gallon drum. I think I've got a drum and a half or so left. Now engine oil Im out of, going to get a drum of Conoco 15w 40 as soon as I get a chance.
colekicker
Member
Note, there are no standards for hydraulic oil. You could actually drain oil from your tractor, put it in a yellow bucket and call it Mark W. universal tractor fluid and be legal.
So, Hy-Tran is a 10wt I believe and New Holland 134 is a 10w30.
This 10w20 stuff can't meet the specs of both, but they print it on the bucket. So, if they are not telling the truth there, what else are they not telling the truth about. Does it have any additives at all?
It just isn't right and everyone should be smart enough to see that something is seriously wrong with this.
So, Hy-Tran is a 10wt I believe and New Holland 134 is a 10w30.
This 10w20 stuff can't meet the specs of both, but they print it on the bucket. So, if they are not telling the truth there, what else are they not telling the truth about. Does it have any additives at all?
It just isn't right and everyone should be smart enough to see that something is seriously wrong with this.
Where the heck do you get that idea from? There are many standards for combination transmission/hydraulic oils. I've yet to ever come across a pail of oil for sale that did not have a list of specs written on it, along with which standards the oil conforms to. The cheap oil that Tractor Supply is selling is clearly stated as type 303 oil - which IS a standard.
Name me one brand that does not give such specs.
Here's just a few from some popular makes.
Allison C-4, C-3, C-2
Case - MS-1207 (Hy-Tran® Plus), MS-1210 (TCH Fluid JIC145), MS-1230 (Poclain
Equip-high pressure systems), B-6, MS-1206 (PTF), MS-1205 (TFD-II), MS-1204
(TFD), JIC-185, JIC-144, JIC-143, B-5
Caterpillar -TO-2
Clark - TA 12, TA 18, HR 500, HR 600
John Deere - J20C, J20D (Winter grade), J20A/B, J14B, JD 303, J21A
Massey Ferguson - M-1141 (Permatran® III), M-1135, M1143, M1129-A, M-1127-A/B,
M-1110
New Holland Ford - M2C134-A/B/C/D, FNHA-2-C-201.00, FNHA-2-C-200.00 (Winter
grade), M2C86-B, M2C53-A, M2C41-B, M2C48-C
Name me one brand that does not give such specs.
Here's just a few from some popular makes.
Allison C-4, C-3, C-2
Case - MS-1207 (Hy-Tran® Plus), MS-1210 (TCH Fluid JIC145), MS-1230 (Poclain
Equip-high pressure systems), B-6, MS-1206 (PTF), MS-1205 (TFD-II), MS-1204
(TFD), JIC-185, JIC-144, JIC-143, B-5
Caterpillar -TO-2
Clark - TA 12, TA 18, HR 500, HR 600
John Deere - J20C, J20D (Winter grade), J20A/B, J14B, JD 303, J21A
Massey Ferguson - M-1141 (Permatran® III), M-1135, M1143, M1129-A, M-1127-A/B,
M-1110
New Holland Ford - M2C134-A/B/C/D, FNHA-2-C-201.00, FNHA-2-C-200.00 (Winter
grade), M2C86-B, M2C53-A, M2C41-B, M2C48-C
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
accel 303 says on the pail not adequate for all warranties, in a super m or 560 yes, in a Magnum-no way!
I have a friend that's an engineer for Caterpiller. He mentioned some of the things that have been posted here.....
Manufacturers spec certain viscosity but the universal often is different vis even though it says it meets spec.
He said some of the fluids don't have the anti-chatter additives....or have the wrong additive for some applications.
He also mentioned additives used in some fluid are not compatible with seals in some trans and hyd systems.
Having said that, he went on to say that UTF is probably OK for most vintage tractors, but said to be very cautious about using it in newer equipment.
He talked about how much CAT spends on testing and developing fluids. If there was no difference in the fluids on the market they wouldn't be spending that money on R&D of fluids.
I specifically asked him what to use in my Ford 555. He suggested I stick with NH Ambra 134,or a Mobil product which I don't remember the name of.
Ambra 134 is about $80/5 gal here. I haven't checked on the Mobil yet.
Manufacturers spec certain viscosity but the universal often is different vis even though it says it meets spec.
He said some of the fluids don't have the anti-chatter additives....or have the wrong additive for some applications.
He also mentioned additives used in some fluid are not compatible with seals in some trans and hyd systems.
Having said that, he went on to say that UTF is probably OK for most vintage tractors, but said to be very cautious about using it in newer equipment.
He talked about how much CAT spends on testing and developing fluids. If there was no difference in the fluids on the market they wouldn't be spending that money on R&D of fluids.
I specifically asked him what to use in my Ford 555. He suggested I stick with NH Ambra 134,or a Mobil product which I don't remember the name of.
Ambra 134 is about $80/5 gal here. I haven't checked on the Mobil yet.
Larry B 1486
Member
I don't know about hyd/tran fluid but one bulk supplier told me that TSC 15-40 diesel engine oil was also rotella T 15-40. Supposed to be bottled up in the same plant out west, maybe he said kansas, same oil just different label. I have always used universal hyd/tran fluid from rual king and TSC stores for over 30 years in all my tractors and never had any tran or hyd problems in my old 706,806,856,1466,1486 and even in brother inlaws CIH 7130 and NH 8770, 8970.
Mark - IN.
Well-known Member
I'm not home right now, but "Traveller" I think its called. I've never had a problem with it. Meets JD standards, I've had the tractors up at the Deere guy, and the mechanics never said or complained that I had problems, so as I think you're pointing out, not a problem that I'm aware of.
Mark
Mark
colekicker
Member
Well, you just made my point. There is no standard for hydraulic fluid. Each manufacturer has set up their own spec.
When we talk about engine oil, there is a standard for the weight, pour point and if there is a winter additive so it will pour easier at a cold temperature.
Each one of those hydraulic oils has a different spec.
Now, if you think that the 10w20 oil that TSC is selling magically changes to a 10w30 when poured into a New Holland tractor and a 10wt when poured into a Case IH tractor, you have just come up with the perfect oil
When we talk about engine oil, there is a standard for the weight, pour point and if there is a winter additive so it will pour easier at a cold temperature.
Each one of those hydraulic oils has a different spec.
Now, if you think that the 10w20 oil that TSC is selling magically changes to a 10w30 when poured into a New Holland tractor and a 10wt when poured into a Case IH tractor, you have just come up with the perfect oil
colekicker
Member
Someone, please someone explain how that two different weight oils can be in the same bucket and meet the correct specs for each tractor. Case IH HyTran and New Holland Multi G 134 are two different weight oils.
This is why I get ------ off on this forum! Some people just can't logically look and see the obvious!
This is why I get ------ off on this forum! Some people just can't logically look and see the obvious!
I made your point? We must not speak the same language. You stated there are no standards, and I stated there are many standards. Name one brand of oil you've seen for sale to the public sold as combination hydraulic and transmission oil that does NOT list, on the container, what standards it meets or exceeds.
Kentb of SWMO
Well-known Member
JD 303 was their first Hydra. Oil spec. when all of the tractor manufacture go away from the 20W low foaming engine oil. Allis first was 821. I worked at an Allis dealer when this all came out. WHAT THE ENGINEERS forgot is that farmer have different brands of tractors that many time SHARES the same equipment with some type of remote hydraulics. When this equipment is switched between the tractors, THE HYDRAULIC OIL mixes so all of this proprietary oil becomes WHO KNOWS WHAT. This why you have UTH fluid. You also have premium UTH which many of the oil cooled Clutch/Brake equipment require like MH needs.
Kent
Kent
colekicker
Member
The list you had came off one of those yellow buckets of hydraulic oil. An oil cannot be two different weights. That is a lie printed right on the bucket. It can't meet the spec of HyTran and New Holland 134. Those oils are two different weights.
When I am saying standards, I mean industry standard for flow, additives, etc. Engine oil has the spec on the back of the bottle, the API rating. Hydraulic oil does not.
If you think there is an industry standard, what is the spec for it.
When I am saying standards, I mean industry standard for flow, additives, etc. Engine oil has the spec on the back of the bottle, the API rating. Hydraulic oil does not.
If you think there is an industry standard, what is the spec for it.
Why can't you "logically" read some specifications before expressing anger at others who have??
Many major tractor companies recommend more the one viscosity oil for the same tractors depending on the temps they are used in. My point is, Case, Deere, etc. don't have just one standard as you demand, so why should companies selling oil?
Viscosity is expressed in different ways with different oils. 10W motor oil equals 75W gear oil. 30W motor oil equals 85W gear oil, etc. Standard summer-grade Hy-tran is equivalent to 10W or 20W motor oil Hy-tran winter-grade is equivalent to 0W to 5W motor oil. Same goes with John Deere and Hyguard.
Case IH "Hy-tran", direct from your Case dealer comes in different viscosities. Hy-tran Ultra is a summer grade combo-oil. Hy-tran Ultra Low Temperature is for colder temper and a lower viscosity. Case-IH also sells many other type of combination hydraulic-transmission oils. All made by the Viscosity Oil Company. Besides Hy-Tran summer and winter grade, there is also Case Hydraulic Excavtor Fluid in summer and winter grade, Case Trans XHD Fluid, Case TCH Fluid, Case Transaxle Fluid, Case HTO Fluid (made from 10W-30 motor oil), etc.
A few specs. Shell Donax is a popular oil sold under many names as a good combo-oil.
Shell Donax TD Plus "combo-oil" cSt visc.
76 at 104 degrees F, 11.3 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -42 degrees F
Viscosity index - 139
Hy-tran Ultra -viscosity cSt:
40 at 104 degrees F, 6.3 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -35 degrees F
Viscosity index - 103
Close to the same visc as 10W motor oil
Hy-tran Ultra Low-temp - viscosity cSt:
33.7 at 104 degrees F, 6.6 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -45 degrees F
Viscosity index - 160
Deere HyGuard summer-grade - visc. cSt:
59 at 104 degrees F, 9.4 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -40 degrees F
Viscosity index - 140
Deere HyGuard winter-grade - visc. cSt:
33 at 104 degrees F, 7.2 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -51 degrees F
Viscosity index - 195
Many major tractor companies recommend more the one viscosity oil for the same tractors depending on the temps they are used in. My point is, Case, Deere, etc. don't have just one standard as you demand, so why should companies selling oil?
Viscosity is expressed in different ways with different oils. 10W motor oil equals 75W gear oil. 30W motor oil equals 85W gear oil, etc. Standard summer-grade Hy-tran is equivalent to 10W or 20W motor oil Hy-tran winter-grade is equivalent to 0W to 5W motor oil. Same goes with John Deere and Hyguard.
Case IH "Hy-tran", direct from your Case dealer comes in different viscosities. Hy-tran Ultra is a summer grade combo-oil. Hy-tran Ultra Low Temperature is for colder temper and a lower viscosity. Case-IH also sells many other type of combination hydraulic-transmission oils. All made by the Viscosity Oil Company. Besides Hy-Tran summer and winter grade, there is also Case Hydraulic Excavtor Fluid in summer and winter grade, Case Trans XHD Fluid, Case TCH Fluid, Case Transaxle Fluid, Case HTO Fluid (made from 10W-30 motor oil), etc.
A few specs. Shell Donax is a popular oil sold under many names as a good combo-oil.
Shell Donax TD Plus "combo-oil" cSt visc.
76 at 104 degrees F, 11.3 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -42 degrees F
Viscosity index - 139
Hy-tran Ultra -viscosity cSt:
40 at 104 degrees F, 6.3 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -35 degrees F
Viscosity index - 103
Close to the same visc as 10W motor oil
Hy-tran Ultra Low-temp - viscosity cSt:
33.7 at 104 degrees F, 6.6 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -45 degrees F
Viscosity index - 160
Deere HyGuard summer-grade - visc. cSt:
59 at 104 degrees F, 9.4 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -40 degrees F
Viscosity index - 140
Deere HyGuard winter-grade - visc. cSt:
33 at 104 degrees F, 7.2 at 212 degrees F
Pour-point - -51 degrees F
Viscosity index - 195
colekicker
Member
Again, how can that yellow bucket oil be two different weights of oil at the same time.
You guys are pointing out the obvious flaw in the oil. It does not meet the specifications of all those manufacturers if it is not the correct weight.
You guys are pointing out the obvious flaw in the oil. It does not meet the specifications of all those manufacturers if it is not the correct weight.
colekicker
Member
Let me clarify. I am not looking at the different spec that you say a manufacturer may be adequate. I am simply looking at what oils they have listed on the bucket. There are two oils that have different weights. It cannot be two different weights coming out of the same jug.
You can keep running the most expensive oil you can buy that's soecific for each and every model you own, and the rest of us will run what we want to run.
We run Massey's Perma-tran in all of our tractors, which are Massey's and Oliver's. Will admit that Oliver's will pump just about anything though. We use the same fluid in them so the fluids don't mix when we switch tractors.
You must also be using the classic view. You respond to each and every guy, and on the modern view it shows you basically saying the same thing 3 or 4 times in a row.
Donovan from Wisconsin
We run Massey's Perma-tran in all of our tractors, which are Massey's and Oliver's. Will admit that Oliver's will pump just about anything though. We use the same fluid in them so the fluids don't mix when we switch tractors.
You must also be using the classic view. You respond to each and every guy, and on the modern view it shows you basically saying the same thing 3 or 4 times in a row.
Donovan from Wisconsin
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Crude oil right now is about $84 for a 42 gallon barrel. Figuring the cost of extraction, shipping, refining, additives, packing, more shipping and retail overhead etc. Just how much of that $4 or $5 per finished gallon of lube oil actually went into oil quality?
Don't buy it(TSC oil). I just came from TSC. The label calls it hydraulic oil and can be used for some hydraulic transmission uses. It specifically states it doesn't meet the specs of new tractors that use hy-tran. No where is it labeled that it meets any specs of any kind.
On the other hand, the 303 they sell in the yellow bucket at Orscheln states on the pail that it meets minimum specs for some hy-tran oils including JD and IH. Can't say it meets specs for newer IH but it does for my 2606. I'd have to look at a bucket again to get their exact specs but at least they have some.
On the other hand, the 303 they sell in the yellow bucket at Orscheln states on the pail that it meets minimum specs for some hy-tran oils including JD and IH. Can't say it meets specs for newer IH but it does for my 2606. I'd have to look at a bucket again to get their exact specs but at least they have some.
More than likely the same oil is OK in either application. all the tractor manufacturers make several weights of hytran oil for use in different temperatures. In most cases, either the light or heavy oil will work fine with no problems.
I have used the hytran oil from my local bulk oil dealer(Mobil) for 30+ years. The same oil meets the spec for my John Deere, International, Case, Steiger, Hough and several other machines.
It meets or exceeds the minumum spec for all these machines, including hydrostatic transmissions. I have had no oil related hydraulic problems in all those years.
If it meets the spec, it will work without problems.
I have used the hytran oil from my local bulk oil dealer(Mobil) for 30+ years. The same oil meets the spec for my John Deere, International, Case, Steiger, Hough and several other machines.
It meets or exceeds the minumum spec for all these machines, including hydrostatic transmissions. I have had no oil related hydraulic problems in all those years.
If it meets the spec, it will work without problems.
colekicker
Member
Congrats bc! I didn't want to be the one to say it, but I have an inside source that these yellow bucket companies have been sent letters to remove any reference to HyTran and MultiG 134. They do not meet the specs set forth by CNH.
That oil is OK if you don"t use it in anything with wet brakes or wet clutch packs. Traveler oil cost my brother two power shift transmissions. It said it was the same as JD 303 oil BUT in fine print it stated not to be used in anything with wet brakes or clutches. It lubed fine but had a different additive. It eat all of the adhesives off of the clutch disks. When we split the tractors the plates and fibers where fine just not bonded together anymore. SO IF you have old two bangers or IH letter series it will work.
That oil is OK if you don"t use it in anything with wet brakes or wet clutch packs. Traveler oil cost my brother two power shift transmissions. It said it was the same as JD 303 oil BUT in fine print it stated not to be used in anything with wet brakes or clutches. It lubed fine but had a different additive. It eat all of the adhesives off of the clutch disks. When we split the tractors the plates and fibers where fine just not bonded together anymore. SO IF you have old two bangers or IH letter series it will work.
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