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Discussion Forum

filling tires (antifreeze)?

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dave2

11-02-2010 16:05:56
139.139.35.70



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hey folks,

I have a chart that tells me how much liquid a tire holds. In my case, 9 gal each frt and 33 gal each rear (85 gal total). Temps here, in the very worst case, may hit 0 degrees f. Be cheaper to build a shed and stick in a heater than buy that much antifreeze. Any other options (besides windshield wiper fluid)?

Thanks, Dave




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wilson

11-03-2010 07:10:23
66.244.106.6



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
In torrington wy the local truck diesel shop (also tractor guy) had lots of used antifreeze th let settle in big plastic tank sold off top to tractor friends for $1.00 / gal. good for old tractors that dribbled and for filling tires. No I would not use it in newly rebuilt engine!!



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El Toro

11-03-2010 03:54:20
108.3.200.96



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
The local Case/IH shop won't touch a tire with calcium because it is hard to dispose of. They recommend used antfreeze, but that has problems too if you have a leak around any animals. Hal



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buickanddeere

11-03-2010 03:33:49
216.183.139.85



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to Alittle, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
Both tractors here have -40F windshield washer fluid diluted 10 to 1 . Never had a stiff tire yet.



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Brad Gyde

11-02-2010 20:59:22
68.28.138.226



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
Dave, It's your tractor, so do what you wish.. I myself side with chloride. Yes.. it is corrosive.. But I have a 1962 Case 930 and a 1967 AC D-17.. Both are loaded with chloride, and have been since new (or close to new) and both HAVE ORIGINAL RIMS STILL. The Case still has original tires, so the line about it causing added wear to the tires, yea, I'm not buying that. The Allis, the tires have been replaced, but the old tires had a lot of road hours on them, much like the ones that were put on it in the late 80's do today (yes, I remember watching my uncle and grandfather unload, change, and reload the tires as a youngster.. thought it was odd that they would put water in tires at that age LOL)
I personally don't see any significant ride difference from one of the "loaded" tractors to one that is not loaded.. Maybe if you do a lot of road travel it makes a difference.
Wheel weights? I want to see you put the same pounds of weights on the wheel as you can put pounds of fluid in the tire.. Gonna take ALOT of weights.
I'm sure straight water could damage a tire in freezing conditions.. But, I am from Michigan, and I had a dual wheel that was loaded with straight water. It came on the tractor that way, and talking to the owner, it had been that way since at least the early 80's (his uncle was owner, and he passed away in 82, I bought the tractor about 5 years ago from the spot his uncle had parked it in the fall of 81) I am sure it could freeze solid though, as our swimming pool does nearly every winter.
Oh, and like the others said.. Cheap, easy to obtain, heavier, and around here, it's what the tire man uses, so like the others said, if repair guy comes it shouldn't mess up his solution/tank/pump.
Again, you own it, so it's your call.. But I'd use chloride.
Brad

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dboll

11-02-2010 20:29:55
64.61.211.187



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
I think I would ask my local tire repairman what he does and does not want run through his expensive fluid pump before I filled them with somebodys witches brew should the need arise for him to fix them.



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buickanddeere

11-02-2010 20:13:04
216.183.139.85



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
A bit of windshield washer fluid is all I use. Nobody worries about it getting splashed around.



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buickanddeere

11-02-2010 20:11:44
216.183.139.85



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to Kevin (FL), 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
I suppose you can also pick yourself up by your boot straps.



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glennster

11-02-2010 19:25:45
99.90.9.153



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
dave, here is the link to a calcuim loading chart. i run 5 lb/gallon mix. mix in a separate poly tank, the solution will get very hot. let it cool for a couple hours before pumping it in. farm supply store will have the fill adapter. home depot has a cheap drill mounted water pump that will do a fair job pumping the chloride in. if you do get the chloride solution on your hands, dont touch anything electrical. even a battery will give ya a good jolt. out of any of the tire concoctions, calcium and water gives you the most weight per gallon. and its the least expensive. 50 lbs of cacl2 costs about 15 dollars from your ag supplier.

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Jim in Ma.

11-02-2010 19:25:36
72.70.103.20



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
I use the non toxic RV antifreeze You can get it in the Spring pretty cheap at most RV repair shops. I drop off a plastic barrel (with my name and phone # on it) and they call when it's full. Sometimes it's free.



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Dave Sherburne NY

11-02-2010 19:21:53
74.42.162.177



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
Got my used antifreeze from a car dealership, FREE



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Wilamayb

11-02-2010 19:01:40
71.15.151.11



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
Obviously I'm in the minority here but my vote is always for wheel weights.

They have residual value.

Any liquid you add has none. It costs more to have the tire repaired with liquid inside. Some of it is corrosive.

Fluid also reduces the tractive ability of your tire because it becomes more rigid. That rigidity also lessens the cushion of your ride. That means added shock to not only your bottom but to the chassis of your tractor.

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Zachary Hoyt

11-02-2010 18:51:39
173.86.117.22



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
There is a chart that I have seen that gives #s of CACL per gallon, you can have different mixes. I think maybe glennster is the one who posted the chart before but I could be wrong. If you're going to load the tires you might as well load them with a heavy mix and get a little extra weight.
Zach



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paul

11-02-2010 18:40:48
76.77.197.242



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
To each their own....

Calcium cloride is a better fluid for many reasons.

Non-poisonous.

Weights more.

Generally cheaper, unless you find something free.

It's what the tire shops use, so you don't mess up their fluid tank with 'off' solutions.

The rust just isn't much of an issue on a tractor you use - you wash them off after installing, and repair leaks as they appear, and all is well. I get more rust pulling a load of corn up the road in winter from the salt on the snowy road.

But then, there are some weeks around here where zero would feel like a warm day.....

--->Paul

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Hobo,NC

11-02-2010 18:36:57
98.17.83.154



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to wilson, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
I spec if a animal drank a bate of wiper fluid he would die,,, I use anti freeze,, I have 40 gal. of nice clean used on hand,,, stop by you can have it,,, drop off a clean plastic drum for the exchange...

I think Dex cool the red chit is spose to be safe to drank but don't hold me to it :lol:



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jm.

11-02-2010 18:32:27
75.105.64.39



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
This topic comes up very offen and nobody ever mentions METHANOL yet that is what most dealers now use. A mixture of 35% or 1 gal methanol and 2 of water will stand down to around 0 deg.
You don,t get the rust on the rims that calcium causes and cost is not that much.
Is this just something that is used here in Tenessee, what ,s the deal.



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glennster

11-02-2010 19:30:45
99.90.9.153



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to jm., 11-02-2010 18:32:27  
methanol is highly toxic.

Methanol has a high toxicity in humans. If ingested, as little as 10 mL can cause permanent blindness by destruction of the optic nerve and 30 mL is potentially fatal,[8] although a fatal dose is typically 100125 mL (4 fl oz). Toxic effects take hours to start and effective antidotes can often prevent permanent damage.[8] Because of its similarities to ethanol (the alcohol in beverages), it is difficult to differentiate between the two (such is the case with denatured alcohol).

Methanol is toxic by two mechanisms. Firstly, methanol (whether it enters the body by ingestion, inhalation, or absorption through the skin) can be fatal due to its CNS depressant properties in the same manner as ethanol poisoning. Secondly, in a process of toxication, it is metabolised to formic acid (which is present as the formate ion) via formaldehyde in a process initiated by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver.[9] The reaction to formate proceeds completely, with no detectable formaldehyde remaining.[10] Formate is toxic because it inhibits mitochondrial cytochrome c oxidase, causing the symptoms of hypoxia at the cellular level, and also causing metabolic acidosis among a variety of other metabolic disturbances.[11] Fetal tissue will not tolerate methanol.

Methanol poisoning can be treated with the antidotes ethanol or fomepizole.[9][12][13] Both of these drugs act to reduce the action of alcohol dehydrogenase on methanol by means of competitive inhibition, so that it is excreted by the kidneys rather than being transformed into toxic metabolites.[9] Further treatment may include giving sodium bicarbonate for metabolic acidosis and haemodialysis or haemodiafiltration can be used to remove methanol and formate from the blood.[9] Folinic acid or folic acid is also administered to enhance the metabolism of formate.[9]

The initial symptoms of methanol intoxication include central nervous system depression, headache, dizziness, nausea, lack of coordination, confusion, and with sufficiently large doses, unconsciousness and death. The initial symptoms of methanol exposure are usually less severe than the symptoms resulting from the ingestion of a similar quantity of ethanol.[2] Once the initial symptoms have passed, a second set of symptoms arises, 10 to as many as 30 hours after the initial exposure to methanol, including blurring or complete loss of vision and acidosis.[9] These symptoms result from the accumulation of toxic levels of formate in the bloodstream, and may progress to death by respiratory failure. The ester derivatives of methanol (such as aspartame) do not share this toxicity[citation needed]. Small amounts of methanol are produced by the metabolism of food and are generally harmless, being metabolized quickly and completely; it is the human body's inability to metabolize the compound in bulk (as it can with ethanol) which leads to its toxicity.

Ethanol is sometimes denatured (adulterated), and thus made undrinkable, by the addition of methanol. The result is known as methylated spirit, "meths" (UK use) or "metho" (Australian slang). The latter should not be confused with meth, a common U.S. abbreviation for methamphetamine.

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Old Roy

11-02-2010 18:08:52
98.17.220.35



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
I'd fill em with moonshine for those bad days when she stops --- LOL

Seriously I have heard some trying to load garden tractors with household sugar and mixture of windshield washer fluid and water

The forum had a bad crash recently and I don't have the particulars on actual weight it added

My guess is a 5# bag of sugar and 2 gal liquid to dissolve it in would be about 20# rounding off the weight of water.

Maybe you could check on the feasibility of a mixture like that, being beet juice is sugar.

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WAYNE-N-TX

11-02-2010 17:41:15
64.136.27.225



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
I didn't know it got cold enough to freeze a tire with water. Sure glad I live down here. Snowed twice here last year, put them together, maybe one inch, didn't last long enough hunt a sunny spot.



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dboll

11-02-2010 20:24:16
64.61.211.187



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to WAYNE-N-TX, 11-02-2010 17:41:15  
you think -35F in the northern states won't freeze water in a tire?



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Richard G.

11-02-2010 17:16:23
74.248.251.33



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
3 gallons of antifreeze in each rear tire will keep it from freezing hard enough to hurt anything. Been using it for years and it gets down to 0 here.
Richard



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old

11-02-2010 17:11:29
4.245.12.171



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
Anti-freeze is good for killing animals and livestock. As for other things other then wiper fluid beet juice is said to work well but not sure if you can get it over there and or CACL. As for storing it in a heated building that in the long run would cost you 10 time if not more then filling with something that would not freeze.



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mike123

11-05-2010 19:00:38
64.198.86.189



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to old, 11-02-2010 17:11:29  
Your a person who makes postive statements based on supposition not fact.



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old

11-05-2010 21:24:38
4.245.15.164



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to mike123, 11-05-2010 19:00:38  
Well think about it. Which do you prefer to have CACL in the soil and maybe the ground water or anti freeze. CACL yes kills plants but in a short time is not long a problem but anti freeze will last years and kill when you see an animal killed by it you might understand and many are killed each year because of simple radiator leaks



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Stuart

11-02-2010 21:24:23
64.198.86.189



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to old, 11-02-2010 17:11:29  
How many times do you know of a tractor tire leaking antifreeze and killing an animal. Maybe farmers around your neck of the woods park their tractors close enough to livestock????



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old

11-02-2010 21:58:23
4.245.1.149



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to Stuart, 11-02-2010 21:24:23  
Dogs, cats, and ny other animal will drink the stuff because it has a sweet taste to it. Again proven over and over again and it is one of the worse ways for an animal to die. You keep showing your a kid



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Stuart

11-02-2010 22:05:10
64.198.86.189



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to old, 11-02-2010 21:58:23  
Calcium chloride will kill to. Who cares about cats or dogs vs Cows???? Like I said, when has a tire full of antifreeze killed a serious amount of animals. I could care less about the cats and dogs around my farm. Its the cows that make me money. Your just made that this "kid" can beat you. ha ha ha. have a great day.



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dave2

11-02-2010 17:16:57
139.139.35.70



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to old, 11-02-2010 17:11:29  
just kidding about the heated building. Haven't found the beet juice. How do I figure out how much (%) calcium chloride to use? Comes up to just under 800 pounds. Will that effect braking or will it be the same as having 800 pounds hanging off the 3pt hitch?

Dave



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Earl-IL

11-03-2010 18:18:25
173.23.199.191



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 17:16:57  
Beet Juice is called "RIM GUARD". Try Google.



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old

11-02-2010 18:39:42
4.245.8.52



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 17:16:57  
Filled tires in the long run are far better then any other way of doing things because it puts the weight on the tread of the tire instead of on a cushion of air which is pretty much all a tire is. As for the ratio of water to CACL that can varies a lot an example from a Ford manual I have
11-28 4ply 164lbs CACL to 32 gal. water adds 440 lbs and as I said that is one example from that manual



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Stuart

11-02-2010 21:20:27
64.198.86.189



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to old, 11-02-2010 18:39:42  
If I had a nickel for every set of rusted out rims I have replaced. Weight is weight. JD website proved that if you look at it.



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old

11-02-2010 21:56:07
4.245.1.149



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to Stuart, 11-02-2010 21:20:27  
As always not correct weight on the tread does more then weight on a cushion of air even the military has proven that



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Stuart

11-02-2010 22:02:43
64.198.86.189



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to old, 11-02-2010 21:56:07  
Since the military is run by the government, I dont think they are to smart in some areas. In the last 20 years tractor companies are dead set against using calcium. I would think John Deere would know what types of weight make a tractor perform better.



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TomH in PA

11-02-2010 17:27:19
67.234.45.81



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 17:16:57  
Weight on the 3pt hitch is different than weight in the tires.

Weight in the tires gives more stability because it's farther outboard. On the 3pt it transfers some weight from the front so you get more rear traction for the same amount, but less front traction. Ever try to lift something with the 3pt that's so heavy you raise the front end off the ground and have ALL the weight on the rear?



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rlh2

11-02-2010 16:46:34
24.206.195.227



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
Check with a junkyard they pay to get red of it



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dboll

11-02-2010 16:17:53
64.61.211.37



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dave2, 11-02-2010 16:05:56  
yeah, buy new tubes and fill with calcium chloride then if they ever develope a leak fix it and don't leak for 2 years, chloride doesn't hurt anything inside a rubber inner tube, it's not as difficult as some would have you believe.



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BSpauld

11-03-2010 05:38:26
205.188.116.74



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 Re: filling tires (antifreeze)? in reply to dboll, 11-02-2010 16:17:53  
I agree with you,Chloride dont rust a inner tube.If mixed the way they recommend weights about 11 lbs per gallon.Some new tractors around here come with beet juice for weight but the tire shops use chloride



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