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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Roosa Master injection pump problem

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DW1307

08-02-2010 04:31:51
98.219.173.48



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I just bought an AC HD-4 with a Roosa Master DBGFC pump. The tractor has sat (inside) for 25 years. I got fuel flowing to the pump inlet, but no further. I took out the inlet regulating valve and also the transfer pump assy. All appears to look ok. I also removed the top cover on the pump and found the metering valve was sticking, got it moving freely, but still no fuel through the pump. Could the transfer pump just be worn out? It has the two piece vanes with springs, and I don"t see any wear inside the cam ring. I guess at this pont I"m stuck, anyone have any suggestions?? Thanks

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rustred

08-02-2010 11:28:58
74.198.148.45



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
thats good at least there was some fuel in it. it may be worth saving. if the metering valve was stuck then its worth looking farther, as the pump plungers are lower down and more succeptable to moisture in that old fuel. you most likely will need to get it recalibrated at a diesel shop.



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redtom

08-02-2010 10:09:32
97.84.168.196



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
I had a 460 farmall w/roosa pump and after sitting all winter it wouldn't rev up. I took the top oof the pump and in the end I filled the pump cavity with sea foam fuel additive which smelled like acetone to me. ran it through and fine after that. My uncle's 560 wouldn't rev up after sitting and the mech ended up taking the return fitiing out of the bottom of the tank-it was plugged. I've never had much luck with the electric pump route when I fool with the 6.2L chevys. Just tossing out comments, here

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rustred

08-02-2010 09:32:20
74.198.148.46



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
i believe that the 2 pump plungers are stuck, not allowing the rollers to be pushed out into the cam ring. you will need to go deeper into the pump and pull the hydraulic head out.and check the delivery valve for being stuck also. another thing is if this pump sat dry, without fuel all them years you can guarrantee it will have stuck parts.thats why its good to keep some diesel in the tank.



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DW1307

08-02-2010 10:30:42
98.219.173.48



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to rustred, 08-02-2010 09:32:20  
When I took the top off of the pump, there was old fuel in it, but I did find the metering valve stuck. You are most likely correct that I'll need to take it apart and will find something else stuck as well.



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DW1307

08-02-2010 08:57:25
98.219.173.48



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
Well, I tried hooking up an electric fuel pump, that put pressure right to the pump inlet and still no luck. For some reason no fuel is getting past the transfer pump. Yes, I did open the return line, and took out the ball check fitting, still no fuel. I think the fact that this tractor sat so many years means something is stuck inside the pump, I just can't figure what.



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Brian Jasper co. Ia

08-02-2010 08:51:09
72.171.0.143



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
I have used a shop vac to prime my D17 diesel. Just put the hose on the blowing side and use it to pressurize the fuel tank. Loosen the fitting on the pump head and tighten when fuel comes out. You're certain there is nothing blocking the return flow outlet? If the return outlet is plugged, the pump will hydraulic lock. Like someone else said, are the 2 plungers sticking?



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george md

08-02-2010 07:02:20
209.213.167.201



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
I'll be back late afternoon or evening,I left

the email open send a phone # in the emaim

and I'll call when I get home . I got run

have to be at the hospital in an hour.

george



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TractormanNC

08-02-2010 06:55:19
209.42.180.58



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
If the delivery valve was sticking, then maybe the pumping plungers are too????



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Bob

08-02-2010 08:24:07
69.178.228.68



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to TractormanNC, 08-02-2010 06:55:19  
EXACTLY.



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El Toro

08-02-2010 05:53:18
74.103.74.58



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  

I would do as Allan suggested using air pressure we did this on field dynamometers that had Cummins diesel engines. We tried everything when we changed the fuel filters and couldn't get them started. Neither vehicle had the day tanks which probably would have helped the problem. We decided to try a few pounds of air pressure on the fuel tanks. That fixed the problem. One vehicle had twin Cummins. Hal
Here's the field dynamometer that had the twin Cummins, but this picture was taken when the twin Ford 500 hp engines were still being used. Each engine had twin 4 barrel carburetors. It would use 300 gallons of fuel on some days. It's chain drive too.

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thurlow

08-02-2010 05:35:30
74.177.51.232



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
jdemaris is the recognized guru, but I haven't seen him on-line for a while. We had a somewhat similar problem and the mechanic removed a check valve (tiny round ball) from the OUTLET (overflow, maybe??) side, which fixed it. It's been almost 40 years ago......CRS.



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Allan In NE

08-02-2010 05:04:22
148.66.88.254



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
Sure sounds like your pump is air locked.

Put a couple of lbs of air pressure at the tank and see if you can get some fuel into that pump.

Darned things don't 'suck' very well dry and you'll crank forever trying to get "fuel traction'.

Another route might be to try pull starting the old heifer.

Allan



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thurlow

08-02-2010 05:30:52
74.177.51.232



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to Allan In NE, 08-02-2010 05:04:22  
Don't think you can pull-start 'em; we had one in the late '60s/early '70s; best I remember, they had a hydaulic shuttle clutch.



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DW1307

08-02-2010 05:13:47
98.219.173.48



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to Allan In NE, 08-02-2010 05:04:22  
I have fuel flowing by gravity to the pump, and the transfer pump is full, so I don't think I have an air lock problem. Pull starting is out, since this is power shift, torque convertor machine.



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Allan In NE

08-02-2010 05:54:52
148.66.88.254



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 05:13:47  
Oh, oh.

Have you tried loosening one of the banjo fittings?

'Spose that pump is even turning? Throttle opening the fuel meter?

Just throwin' some ideas at the wall.

Allan



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DW1307

08-02-2010 06:08:50
98.219.173.48



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to Allan In NE, 08-02-2010 05:54:52  
I've loosened most every fitting,, no fuel flow. To get flow through the pump (low pressure) it shouldn't have anything to do with the high pressure side. I already had the top cover off and the governor control is moving as it should be. Pump is turning, I checked it with the fuel transfer pump off, so I'm sure it's turning. I already had the idea as someone else suggested to use an electric fuel pump just to check it out, but I still have to figure out why the transfer pump isn't pumping. So far, I feel its just a wear issue, as I understand replacing the vanes is quite common.

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elevatorman 724

08-02-2010 04:50:07
69.97.193.12



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 Re: Roosa Master injection pump problem in reply to DW1307, 08-02-2010 04:31:51  
try putting electric pump instead of lift pump just to check it



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