Yesterday's Tractor Co. New Parts for Old Tractors
Click Here or call 800-853-2651 
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Tractor Manuals
Tractor Parts
Classified Ads
Photo Ads

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
TractorLinks.com
Ford 8N/9N Club
Today's Tractors
Garden Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life
Enter your email address to receive our newsletter!

subscribe
unsubscribe
  
Discussion Forum

Convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge

Author 
Michael

07-02-2001 20:26:21
64.12.106.39



Report to Moderator

I'm working on a restoration of a MF with oil bath air filter system and would like to give this older tractor some of the advantages of modern iron. Can anyone suggest a retrofit to keep the original look and still convert to the more efficient cartridge air filter system?




[Reply]   [No Email]
G Taylor , if so great where did the oil baths go?

07-04-2001 11:15:58
64.10.111.211



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
For a given size a quality paper filter will restrict airflow less & remove more dirt than an oilbath unit. If it's a counterfeit filter in a quality brand name appearing box or a cheapo filter then the paper filter unit is about to cause problems. Or a paper filter that has been cleaned too many times. I've even seen some yoyo's "cleaning" a filter by blowing from the dirty side. All vehicle/equipment manufactures have abandoned the oilbath for several reasons. Look at the dyno results from converting to a dry filter. If a show judge can find the conversion he's being too snoopy.

[Reply]  [No Email]
pdxGREEN

07-04-2001 13:35:28
172.135.217.231



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to G Taylor , if so great where did the oil baths go?, 07-04-2001 11:15:58  
I never saw an oil bath ruin an engine becasue the element had a hole in it, or the seam wasn't glued properly. For a non turboed smaller HP engine their isn't anything wrong with using an oil bath.

From my memeory alone, I remember the JD 95 combine engines that WIX ruined becasue the length of the filter was a hair to short. By the way, WIX was also building air filters for Deere at the time, and used the Deere specs which had an error. Deere paid to fix the engines their filters ruined, but WIX didn't. WIX said is was JDs fault. I also remember a truck engine that was ruined becasue the original filter had a square seal and it didnt matter which side the dirty air was on. The WIX filter had a lip type seal like an oil seal, and it sucked the dirty air past the seal and ruined a Caterpillar 3406 engine. WIX wouldn't pay for that one either, and to this day build s the filter the same way.

A couple years ago, I bought a new air filter for my F150. For some reason when as installed it, I looked inside it (its a cone shape) good thing I did, as the pleats where not glued shut at the end. I took it back to the auto parts store for a refund, and they put it right back on the shelf.

Use your oil bath, and properly service it. It's not going to hurt anything.

FYI, Donaldson is still building new oil bath air cleaners. If there wasn't a use for them they wouldn't be selling them.

[Reply]  [No Email]
G Taylor

07-04-2001 21:53:37
64.10.111.223



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to pdxGREEN, 07-04-2001 13:35:28  
Easier to find more examples of ruined engines from oilbath aircleaners. I would avoid a parts store with such terrible customer contempt. Odds are that was a counterfeit airfilter. Over rich mixtures caused by plugged oilbath aicleaners ruin rings,cylinder walls,bearings & cause extra air pollution. Diesel run aways from oil carry over. Dirt drawn into engines due to low oil level or wrong oil. Dirty air drawn into engines when the mesh is plugged reducing the filtration area. Donaldson Oilbaths hold a tiny market share compared to the dry filter or Amsoil & K&K oil wetted units. Some units go to "Bongo Bongo" where spare parts are difficult to obtain. Oil bath can work but it's like comparing vacuum tubes to transistors.

[Reply]  [No Email]
pdxGREEN

07-05-2001 01:57:18
172.175.110.150



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to G Taylor , 07-04-2001 21:53:37  
Forgive me oh great one, I shall never again question you. Being a Certified Lubrication Engineer, I guess I am not qualified to post answers about filtration. You being the backyard expert are without question the best to answer this type of question.

Again, please pardon my ignorance!!!!



[Reply]  [No Email]
rrlund

01-17-2008 08:13:33
216.46.209.247



Report to Moderator
 Re: O/T What would you farm on 25 acres? in reply to JBMac, 01-17-2008 07:59:21  
What do you have a market for? It wouldn't pay,for example,to grow corn or soybeans on a small acerage if you had to haul 100 miles to the nearest elevator.Same goes for any commodity.



[Reply]  [No Email]
Ray,IN

07-03-2001 21:24:26
63.87.41.131



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
Listen to these guys comments! The paper filters are NOT as efficient as the oil bath filters,just easier to service.My '53 TO30 engine runs great, and never been apart, how can that be improved? A restoration is considered to be all orginal, you won't get much attention from the judges if you modify the air cleaner.



[Reply]  [No Email]
Jeff

07-03-2001 18:18:58
65.201.155.41



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
I have a 48 MM U. Motor has never been apart still runs good it has a oil bath filter. Something must be working right



[Reply]  [No Email]
Johnny

07-03-2001 17:19:03
205.188.196.58



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
I wish I had an oil bath on my Deutz diesel, paper filter costs about $30.



[Reply]  [No Email]
BlueLite

07-03-2001 10:01:38
216.209.139.47



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
If you have spare space under the hood
you can do this.

Get an air breather assembly for a carb from a large big block V8. Bolt a plate with a flange
of the same diam as your lead in pipe to your carb over the hole for the carb. Put some silicon around the plate for leaks.
Connect your pipe to the flange and tuck the whole
thing under the hood. Braze and bondo the hole
for the oil air breather. You can make the filter housing smaller and take away all the entrance holes for the pollution system,pcv,etc with tin snips. That will leave the paper of the filter exposed, but it's under the hood out of the rain. Just cut around it
leaving enough for the housing and screw
down top plate.

I saw this on someone'e tractor
once and he said has no problem. Just make sure your filter is for an engine of a larger displacement than the tractor.

About filtration. I think the problem with the
paper is a question of air flow. The larger the surface area of filter, the less resistance to intake air flow, the less chance of vacuum cleaner effect and suction bringing in dirt.

Mike if your worried about it, just change it more often, what the heck it's cheap.

[Reply]  [No Email]
G Taylor

07-03-2001 08:47:29
64.10.111.153



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
If.............. If the mesh isn't loaded with dirt/mud, it's serviced, proper weight & level of oil & if the aircleaner is properly sized an oil-bath is acceptable. All the dirt doesen't wash down, the mesh must be removed on occasion & boiled out. Since these factors rarly occur we just cross refence the Fram catalog for the dry filter that fits.Make more power too. Alberts shop conversion is a 1st class job. A dry filter can't pull oil over & cause a diesel runaway.

[Reply]  [No Email]
ferrell freeman

07-03-2001 08:05:27
65.82.110.186



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
The only to make an oil bath air filter to paper converison work at its max. cleaning and air flow is to add a precleaner bowl assembly. I, think the main reason every equipment manufactor changed they were not making any money after the sale and to the a mount of air required for some of the large diesel engine and combines .



[Reply]  [No Email]
Nolan

07-03-2001 07:18:45
209.48.190.220



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
The oil bath is not as bad as you think, and the paper filter is far worse then you realise.

K&N is considered by many to be the holy grail of air filters. It's an oil soaked mesh. The air going in twists around in the mesh, and the dirt particles can't make the turn, skidding into the oil and getting stuck there.

The oil bath filter takes a puddle of oil stored down below, and sucks it up into the mesh once the engine is running. With the engine running, the air flow does not go through the puddle of oil, but above it. This is very similar to the K&N type, with the benefit of having a far greater supply of oil.

A paper filter is either extremely restrictive if it is at all effective, or not effective at all to allow adequate air flow. They blind very quickly as an added benefit. The paper is far too thin to be an effective turbulance type filter, and must instead act like an extremely fine screen, catching all the dirt on the surface. It's a reasonable compromise for things like automobiles, which don't operate in very dusty conditions. But for agricultural equipment, it's not a good design.

[Reply]  [No Email]
Frank

07-03-2001 18:19:14
204.119.225.113



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Nolan, 07-03-2001 07:18:45  
I once put a K & N filter on a 750 Suzuki motorcycle. Don't remember what I didn't like about it, but I put the stock filter back in. The bike is long gone but, the filter is still sitting on a shelf in my shop



[Reply]  [No Email]
ferrell freeman

07-03-2001 14:06:20
65.82.110.160



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Nolan, 07-03-2001 07:18:45  
My, son finished building a 302 high proformance engine for his f150 4x4 .The first K&N I,had any experince with and so it has held up ,because the first thing he did was find the worst swamp he could to put in and every weekend when he and his wife come in from work is put in another one .If mud and water cannot destroy a filter nothing can. He, just cleans it out and goes back to the mud.



[Reply]  [No Email]
ferrell freeman

07-03-2001 14:05:51
65.82.110.160



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Nolan, 07-03-2001 07:18:45  
My, son finished building a 302 high proformance engine for his f150 4x4 .The first K&N I,had any experince with and so it has held up ,because the first thing he did was find the worst swamp he could to put in and every weekend when he and his wife come in from work is put in another one .If mud and water cannot destroy a filter nothing can. He, just cleans it out and goes back to the mud.



[Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Christian

07-03-2001 10:33:33
38.26.241.42



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Nolan, 07-03-2001 07:18:45  
I think your filter wasnt built correctly or something, I have a 3 wheeler, that has a K&N Filter since 1985, I cleaned it when I got it last year and its still going strong. Maybe You should try anc claim a warranty?



[Reply]  [No Email]
J.D. McGinn

07-03-2001 07:33:22
129.37.88.47



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Nolan, 07-03-2001 07:18:45  
I agree wholeheartedly with Nolan the previous post, except that i dont even believe paper filters are adequate for even cars because they also go through dusty conditions at times. I have converted ALL of my equipment including my 1937 Model B John Deere to use the fantastic K&N air filter. For those of you who do not know, the K&N is initials for Ken & Norm. K&N makes a wide assortment of universal filters which makes converting your tractor very easy. Email me if you are interested and have more questions. take care~ J.D.

[Reply]  [No Email]
Dean

07-03-2001 08:19:48
206.105.4.187



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to J.D. McGinn, 07-03-2001 07:33:22  
I had a K&N air filter on my truck. When I went to clean it, I noticed that all the cotton had moved away from the valleys. I could literally see my hand through the filter at those points. Given that the primary job of an air filter is to filter air, I threw it in the garbage and went back to paper filters. At least they filter air!



[Reply]  [No Email]
Ludwig

07-03-2001 09:11:37
209.213.208.66



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Dean, 07-03-2001 08:19:48  
Dean, How long had you used that K&N filter? I've had one on my pickup for two years now. I've cleaned it once and it looks just as good as the day I bought it. The K&N people seem to have a really good warrentte, I wonder if you could have sent it in.
I know my truck runs alot better with the K&N filter in, and I get 1-2mpg better which is important to me since I commute 400 miles a week on gas ranging from $1.60 to $1.80 lately.

[Reply]  [No Email]
Dean

07-03-2001 09:43:44
206.105.4.187



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Ludwig, 07-03-2001 09:11:37  
Less than 1 year, about 12k miles. I have had several people tell me that they had the same experience. A warranty means nothing to me, I expect an air filter to filter air, all of it!



[Reply]  [No Email]
Dean

07-03-2001 03:32:48
206.105.4.187



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
Oil bath filters don't filter at all when too dry, have a lot of restriction when too wet. The balance is hard to get. A modern paper filter is a great idea. My tractor has provisions for both but I only use the paper cartridge filter.

You might want to spend some time walking around the used tractor lots and checking out dry filters for other tractors. If you take some careful measurements you should be able to find something that fits and looks good.

[Reply]  [No Email]
Alberta Mike

07-02-2001 20:53:47
209.115.159.105



Report to Moderator
 Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Michael, 07-02-2001 20:26:21  
I've been told that there was nothing inefficient about the old oil-bath style filters at all. As a matter of fact, I believe they are generally regarded as being a very good filter. The advantage of the paper one is of course the ease of servicing it, just put in a new one. When you think that some of those old oil bath filters are still being used and the engines are in good shape, well maybe consider leaving it as is. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Reply]  [No Email]
Scott Green

07-03-2001 16:29:39
209.130.144.134



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Alberta Mike, 07-02-2001 20:53:47  
Alberta Mike , your 2 cents are exactly like my 2 cents. I feel the same way you do. I've also herd over the years that the oil bath is very efficient. I would say preventative maintanence is very important through out the entire tractor.



[Reply]  [No Email]
bhb

01-17-2008 07:22:33
76.189.169.157



Report to Moderator
 OT trailer floor in reply to Alberta Mike, 07-02-2001 20:53:47  



[Reply]  [No Email]
Alberta Mike

07-03-2001 17:55:13
209.115.159.113



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Scott Green, 07-03-2001 16:29:39  
Scott, I wish my wife was agreeable with all my beliefs as you are !!!



[Reply]  [No Email]
Brian G. NY

07-03-2001 18:12:43
216.238.173.81



Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: convert oil bath air filter to paper cartridge in reply to Alberta Mike, 07-03-2001 17:55:13  
Mike, I believe you are correct about the oil bath air cleaners. I remember Ford trucks offered the oil bath cleaners long after the paper filters became the norm. The oil bath cleaner was recommended for "extreme" conditions.



[Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Return to Forum]   [Add a Reply]

Hop to:
TRACTOR   PARTS TRACTOR   MANUALS
Same-Day Shipping! Most of our stocked parts ship the same day you order (M-F).  Expedited shipping available, just call!  Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors.  Compare our super low shipping rates!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  We are a Company you can trust and have generous return policies!   Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ More Info ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2014 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters