independent pto problems

i have a 1973 ford 3000 tractor when you try and engage pto with bush hog attached it grinds in transmission like the clutch is not disengaging the drive shaft on an independentpto tractor should you have to push clutch any info would be helpful

the PTO clutch needs to be adjusted or its stuck...hopefully adjustment will cure problem.

3000 does not have independent pto. 4000 and larger Fords had independent. You have a double clutch = Live pto. Your pto clutch is probably worn out and someone has adjusted it to get the last ounce of life out of the disc. Have to kill the engine to engage the pto. Not grinding in the tranny but the sliding coupler behind the tranny.
It will probably fail completely soon and will require splitting the tractor to repair. BTDT
This site sell the complete dual clutch package.
Get your wallet out.

You have a two stage clutch on the 3000 Ford, half down is the main clutch for the transmission, all way down is the PTO. It is "live pto", not "independent. If I understand your question.

PROBABLY right, except...If that 3000 has Select-O-Speed, it may have IPTO.

Probably the pto clutch on a 2-stage clutch though.

Well now you got me there.

Even the blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then

Well, the original post did mention a clutch... But, there are confused new owners of SelectoSpeed tractors that mistake the inching pedal for a "clutch"..

Best to first verify what he has for a tractor..

I've had many get stuck. Sometimes all it takes is being parked for a winter without being used.

I assume you have a dual-clutch setup,and that's what I'm referring to. There is NO rule anywhere that I know of - that makes "independent" one thing, and "live" another. Main commonality is - they both keep the PTO going when you disengage your wheel drive - i.e. both systems are independent of the wheel drive. The rest depends much on marketing at the time and who was calling their system what. Some tractor companies called their PTOs "independent" when they were totally self-contained systems. And, some did not.

If you think your adjustment seems OK, try hooking something to the PTO with a good load on it and the push the clutch all the way down. It might break it loose if just stuck from sitting or oil and rust. I've had to do it many times.

As stated, your 3000 does not have Independent PTO unless you have a SelectoSpeed transmission. The assumption that you have a two stage clutch may be incorrect as well. Not all gear drive 3000's have live PTO. In fact, not all 8 speed 3000's have live PTO.

[i:654c4848f0]There is NO rule anywhere that I know of - that makes "independent" one thing, and "live" another.[/i:654c4848f0]

My understanding of the two forms of pto is that independent has nothing to do with the clutch whatsoever. Clutch in, clutch out, halfway down or otherwise, the pto is "independent" of the clutch. Just my thinking on the two.

I've seen mention in old tractor literature and many patents of having a PTO "independent" of the wheel drive. Most words and phrases have different meanings in different places and times. Until I see something definitive to the contrary, I'm going to assume the "live" versus "independent" versus "continuous" (and maybe a few more) were products of marketing and companies selling tractors. All wanting to sound like they had something better and different.

Emil Stumpf of Illinois got the first U.S. patent for a "continous PTO" for ag. tractors in 1940 (filed in 1942). He called it many things including "independent."

So did Henry A. Ferguson in his 1956 Patent (better know as Harry Ferguson).

Please remember even if you do have the 8 speed transmission with the dual stage clutch and live PTO - it is possible to set the clutch pedal so it doesn't operate the PTO clutch by moving the pin in the clutch linkage pedal to lower the pedal height. It may be something to check. The linkage must be in position to make the pedal as high as possible in order to be able to work the PTO clutch.

1940 Independent PTO described in US Patent, using dual clutches.


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He mentioned the PTO clutch......No specific mention of a main drive clutch.

John Deere referred to the pto's in their Dubuque/Mannheim utility tractors for several models as transmission driven,continuous & independent.

If I read the question correctly, it was do I have to push the clutch to put the PTO in gear. The answer is YES to engage the PTO.if it is a live PTO tractor. My old Oliver 88 had independant PTO that had a lever back by the seat that was completely seperate from the drive clutch. Never saw a Ford 3000 manual tranny with independant clutch. Keith

Yes, every company has certain labels they attached to PTO systems - as marketing tools.

My point was, and still is - that the "independent power take-off" in most of the early USA Patents is a dual-clutch setup. And, it is clearly described as being "independent" of the wheel drive. So, going by the original use of the word as it was applied to farm tractors by those that invented it, and also the use of the dictionary-definition, ANY PTO that is able to keep turning while you disengage the wheel drive - is an independent power take-off.

Subsequently, anybody who calls his dual-clutch setup as providing an independent PTO is NOT incorrect. Now, if the argument was based on what Ford, Deere, et. al. called it at the time they were selling it - the argument would be different.

Considering this IS an old tractor forum, seems that the not-too-distant history of tractor development is relevant. Early patents for independent PTOs are clearly described by most of the major companies - each one tweaking it a bit and attempting to make it special enough to get a patent. Earliest that I've read closely are . . . the independent PTO patent filed by Emil Stumpf and Gifford for Huber Mfg. Co. in 1940, the version filed by Henry A. (Harry) Ferguson to International Harvester in 1956, Clarence Hubert, etc.

Here is one example:

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&current=ClarenceHubertIndependentPTO.jpg" target="_blank"></a>