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GM Chrysler nearly bust, chapter 11

B

buickanddeere

Well-known Member
So does this mean baragin hunters maybe able to purchase new inventory on the lot for pennies on the dollar?
Apparently the assmebly labour cost of a vehicle is 7%. Total labour cost per vehicle when considering all GM employees, 40-50%.
 
What?!? Assembly labor is only 7%?!? That can't be, it has to be closer to 90% or 95%......everybody knows assembly labor is what's bankrupting GM...Wagnor's 23 million dollar pension doesn't have a thing to do with it...
 
My understanding is that assembly labor is low. Legacy labor is high. GM is paying a great deal of money to retired employees in the form of pensions and medical coverage. To me it looks like the UAW was instrumental in their downfall.
 
Perzakley!

I've been hearing for the longest time that if it weren't for the union labor, they could almost give 'em away! So it MUST be true!
 
Never fear, the external_link Government Motors, GM and Chrysler divisions will be the cheapest and most sold before his first of seven terms are over.
 
Indiana's not a right-to-work state, yet Toyota and Honda BOTH have built here in the last 10 years. Kentucky's not a right-to-work state either, and Toyota's plant in Georgetown turns out a LOT of Camrys.

It's not always unions or right-to-work laws that decide where plants are built...despite what you might think.
 
Maybe as a sales incentive, you'll be able to claim a tax credit if you buy a GM product...to protect the government's investment in GM, of course, and not as an unfair competitive marketing advantage.
 
Buick,

So, how would you like to be Mr. Fiat right now? If I were, I'd offer Cerberus about a buck and a half for Chrysler. If President external_link is not going to loan Cerberus any more money unless it merges with Fiat, doesn't that put Fiat in the cat-bird seat?

Gonna be interesting.

Tom in TN
 
"Legacy labor is high". When they cut pensions for UAW retirees, how about cutting government retirees' pensions- that taxes on other retirees' pensions help support? There's retired firemen, law enforcement, ag. office workers, state and county road maintenance, political offices-- and especially WASHINGTON! Why should a politican that served ONE term be entitled to a pension?
 
I think that would be great, as long as you didn't have to worry about paying off your house and other big debts.

The Lordstown plant here in the NE of Ohio, where they make the Cobalt, went down to 1 shift this week, and more people around here are more concerned about keeping the older family cars running as long as possible!
A 2 to 3 trade-in turnaround on vehicles will be a thing of the past soon
 
Youi can buy a GMC product and President Goodwrench will gaurentee your warrenty claims. After they go bankrupt service will be preformed on the east lawn of white house. So buy buy buy every family member should have at least 2 each. LOL
 
Sad time in our country....someone asked "how can Pres. external_link and some newly minted auto experts fire the CEO of GM, a publicly traded company with shareholders and a board of directors....easy, because he OWNS them (thru bailout $$$).....OK so how come external_link has not fired any financial institutions execs since he gave them bailout $$$$.....easy answer....because the FiNANCIAL INSTITUTIONS OWN external_link....easy answer when you think about it.
 
wonder what their going to name our new car co. ? fiasler?chrysiat?I bet the dodge bros are spinning in their graves now!Could be those Ford boys seen the writing on the wall.I guess a Fiat will be our militarys new fast attack vehicle..
 
Keerectomundo........and that's about all you can say and not get censored.....If GM stock goes low enough the US will flat out own the outfit......Hmmmmmm.
 
I know 20 years ago, our plant manager told us that everybody in the building could work for free, and it would make less than 10% difference in the cost of production. I think at that time the overall labor content in a vehicle was about $1000. One thing that has influenced health care is that years ago, GM had a huge workforce & a lot of dependents. So did a few other large companies. When the sat down to negotiate health care, they carried a lot of weight. Now much smaller companies have a lot less infuence, so the price goes up. Nobody is big enough to negotiate with the AMA & big nnalert anymore.
 
7% of the cost is pay the UAW wages in the plant as the vehicle is being assembled.
Benefits for retired employees and all white collar employees are on top of that 7% bringing the total wage and benefit cost per vehicle. To 40-50% depending on who you ask.
 
But the AMA and the pharmaceutical companies aren't the problem; the UNIONS are! So let's put a bounty on'em, and HANG 'EM ALL!
 
So take ALL the medical benefits away from the retirees...prescriptions and all. Then when they die out...PROBLEM SOLVED.
 
You nailed it.Nothing will ever be done to the big banks.Check out the link below.These banks plus AIG are the biggest crooks in the country.
Big Banks
 
7% of the cost is pay the UAW wages in the plant as the vehicle is being assembled.
Benefits for retired employees and all white collar employees are on top of that 7% bringing the total wage and benefit cost per vehicle. To 40-50% depending on who you ask.


=================================================

Source?
 
Is there a breakdown of how much the white collar employees add...and even more specific, how much the top 15% of the white collar workforce adds?? If I were to bet, I'd say no one has provided those numbers.
 

(reply to post at 10:32:33 03/31/09)
Click to expand...

Can't believe (actually I can) there hasn't been a full blown investigation into the motives. Not taking up for anyone, but slick willy just got a harmless blow
job.......
 
I have owned FORD for years---always new they were smaller but smarter then GM. MANAGEMENT is the problem with GM and Chrysler.
FORD had the same business expense, they just had "A BETTER IDEA"
 
Ford saw there was a problem, and when Bill Ford replaced Jacques Nasser as CEO they began the restructuring. GM and Chrysler were victims of their own corporate inertia. They stayed in motion, in the same direction, because that's what they'd always done...despite the fact that a new direction was called for.

Ford's not THAT much better off, but they're SOME better off because they saw some of this coming, and they decided to do SOMETHING...whereas GM and Chrysler did nothing.
 
Retirees cost is a fixed expense so the percent it costs per car depends on how many cars a company sells. If sales drop in half the percent per car doubles.
 
I'm going to buy a car for my oldest daughter this year.

All this talk by external_link, GM, and Chrysler does nothing to increase my confidence in "American" made cars. How would you like to have your car warranty backed by the same people that brought you Medicare?

Because of warranty concerns I'm leaning heavily toward a true import although I would like to buy a Ford.

I'm 53 years old and have only bought one import in my life, a Toyota when I was much younger and dumber. Now I'm wondering if I really was dumber?

JMHO

slim
 
Buzzman, serious question here.

If the retirees don't take cuts and the car manufacturers go bankrupt, the retirees get nothing. If they take a cut in benefits, the manufacturers may stay in business.

Here's the question. This is bad how? The retirees can have something or nothing. That's not a hard choice if you ask me.

Sure they worked hard all their lives for the benefit. But it's the same as working hard for the money you put into your 401k. If you invest it in the wrong stock you're screwed. The retirees may have invested their lives in the wrong company.

slim
 
Hey, they were union members...why do they deserve anything, short of being hung by the neck until dead, for their communistic leanings? Let the management take their multimillion dollar payouts, it was the union members who mismanaged and ruined the companies.

Let 'em starve...GM paid 'em when they worked there, GM owes them nothing now. I mean, what are they gonna do if they get skrooed...go on strike again?
 
...that I'm just posting what a lot of other folks are thinking.

So how come contracts "must" be upheld when it comes to bonuses for AIG employees, but contracts with UAW retirees aren't worth the paper they're written on?

Simple...AIG employees aren't pinko union members, so they deserve every cent, even if their company is in the tank.
 
Hey, it really was a serious question. Sorry you didn't seem to think it was.

If I was a retiree or part of the union and I was faced with their choice, I really do think I would rather take a cut instead of risking all and losing it. Right now it seems like neither side is wanting to blink. But it can't stay this way for long. Pension plans can go bust just as easily as 401k's.

And I never said management deserved big bonuses. You put those words in my mouth.

slim
 
No, it's probably more like AIG employees made better investments with their campaign donations than the unions did.

slim
 
The latest figures I could find online were that Toyota"s CEO made a little less than a million a year(now if I read it right, those numbers were a few years old) while Rick Wagner made more than 14 times that. Toyota has 2 UAW plants in America. If you buy an American made Tacoma or Corolla then you are buying a union made vehicle. I also wonder whats Toyota"s profit margins on both Tacoma"s and Corolla"s??
 
Part of me wants to say: guy's please don't buy a new GM or Xler....I don't want to pay for your warranty work with my tax money.

On the other hand, if no one buys their stuff, I might get screwed worse as a tax payer with who knows what the next bailout will be.

Darned if we do, darned if we don't I guess.

Makes me think the gov. should have just stayed out of this whole mess.
 
GM needs to have a bankruptcy, It sickens me to say it.

My sister works there, and so does her husband.

Guess what----My sister makes $130k/year. (no she is not an executive) I have not heard that she received a pay cut.
Get this---My sister actually received a bonus 5 years ago when GM actually lost money one year.
I sum it up to bad management and no one watching the bank account.

GM now needs to go through a quick bankruptcy to allow the following to happen.

1. Throw the over paid execs out---A judge needs to do it.

2. ALL the retirees need to be off the payroll---It sickens me to say it but GM cannot keep paying out the money to the union retirees/salaried retirees and the exec. retirees.
Some of the retiree benefits are covered under insurance policies---I have no specifics or details. Maybe offer a buyout like $50k if you dont take it then you get nothing after the fact.

3. Pay cuts for ALL employees, minimum 20%

4. Sell Saturn and Saab.

5. Allow more stockholder input to restructure the company.

6. Hang Rick Wagoner and other execs from a rope for allowing stock holder equity to be wrecked along with wrecking the company.
This would destroy the good-ole-boy mentality in the company.
7. Lots of praying.
 
She is an Engineer and a manager title goes with it.

She has a "I am perfect" attitude.
Working at GM is the only real job she has had, she has been there 20 years. (oh, she worked at Wendy's for 6 months and another BS job when she was a 18 or 19)
My sister has a very sad view of reality, her reality is that GM is a large corporate giant that has infinite amounts of money and the company is in existence to serve the employees, not the customers. (I think her attitude has changed in the last few months) She has an engineering degree, but no real finance experience or her attitude would change.
I guess the severance packages now "only" go up to six months of the persons pay, maximum. So I am told. It was 1 month of your pay for every year you were there, IE: 20 years, 20 months, 30 years 30 months and so on. Not anymore, 6 months max and this it.
 
We are taking a cut in the medical.The union is taking over the med benefits from the company's .That was negoiated in the last contract.Ford Retiree
 
And who forced those big banks to make loans to people without the income or discipline to repay them? Didn't happen when G.W. Bush was president. One guy stood up to Slobbering Barney and Crooked Chris. I forget his name right off....
 
Any american made Toyota Tacoma or Toyota Corolla is UNION made in UAW plants. Now if you by one that was made outside of the states, then it is a non-union vehicle. But the point I was trying to make is if GM's management makes 14 times more than Toyota's(OK, that might not hold true across all management employees, but I bet GM's white collar employees make a whole hell of a lot more than Toyota's), then why are we suppose to be outraged at GM's hourly employees making less than double what Toyota's do?? The problem with GM, Chrysler, and yes even Ford(they are in almost as bad as shape, they just borrowed enough money before the "credit crisis") is not with the employees that make $1000 or $1500 a week. The problem is is with the employee's that make a $1000 or $1500 a day.
 
That Jacques Nasser guy really hurt Ford with his methods of running things to try and make money for himself. The worst was when he bought or combined with those foreign car companies which they have now either sold or are trying to sell.
 
After owning three brand new GM cars I decided I'd had enough GM cars. One of those new cars was not only the worst car I've ever owned, it was the worst car I've ever heard of. They didn't care two rips about me then. Jerked me around on warranty repairs. I know I should care now but I can't think of one reason why.
 
You forgot that Bush fired a few CEO's long before Bama was elected including one fram AIG. How come you don't chew him out? Politics maybe, huh?
 
yeah ford sure is better because if you have a warranty problem they blame it on you and wouldnt fix the problem untill it out of warranty and then they want to fix it.
 
You would think....

But I've been re-educated. From reading posts here by folks who apparently know all the facts, I now know that it was UAW labor that mismanaged these auto companies. It was UAW labor that made more money than the executives, and it was UAW labor that all sat on their butts their entire time...so I guess the white-collar workers must've actually built the cars.

And I learned all that from the posts I've read right here. The ONLY problem at the automakers has been the overpaid commie pinko UAW labor, who got rich while not lifting a finger...or so I've been led to believe.
 
I understood that the reason MERCEDES dumped
Chrysler was that it cost them too much to buy
defective vehicles back under the "lemon Law's"
(13% of 2006 production bought back ?)
 
since they have received bailout money and they are going bust, I think we should repo their cars and have an auction, give proceeds back to taxpayers, TABLES TURNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
(quoted from post at 17:44:56 03/31/09) Any american made Toyota Tacoma or Toyota Corolla is UNION made in UAW plants. Now if you by one that was made outside of the states, then it is a non-union vehicle. But the point I was trying to make is if GM's management makes 14 times more than Toyota's(OK, that might not hold true across all management employees, but I bet GM's white collar employees make a whole hell of a lot more than Toyota's), then why are we suppose to be outraged at GM's hourly employees making less than double what Toyota's do?? The problem with GM, Chrysler, and yes even Ford(they are in almost as bad as shape, they just borrowed enough money before the "credit crisis") is not with the employees that make $1000 or $1500 a week. The problem is is with the employee's that make a $1000 or $1500 a day.
Click to expand...

Only two models are union made? That isn't enough to be a huge deal, they can stomach that. They are just now starting to make the beloved Prius here, otherwise they have been hauling them into the country in boats. Most of the domestic makers fleet is union made in the states, and they catch a ton of crap if they try to outsource.

The reason I point my finger at the union is because while the execs make a lot more money than those across the pond, there are ALOT more hourly workers here.
 
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