Salpeter??? and fertilizer.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

Hey folks,
Last June (I was a little late) I spread fertilizer on my pastures just before about 3 days of predicted rain. The rain didn't come (to amount to anything) until August. Did my fertilizer do any good, or did it go into the air because no rain soaked it into the ground?
A local guy said that I should use Saltpeter this year and do it ASAP in order to wipe out any parasites and grow good grass (just starting to get a green haze now, but the places I fertilized last summer are greener than the rest).
So, I called the feed store and asked about buying. Said it is an explosive and I have to bring my passport and they do and send a form to the police to let them know how much I bought, etc. I have no problem with that, but is there a danger of me doing something to blow this stuff up between hauling this stuff a couple miles to the house and spreading it?

Thanks for any advice.

Dave

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

Have you looked up saltpeter amd read about it.

Plumcrazy · Mar 16, 2009

Saltpeter alone isn't explosive, but be sure and wear a painters mask when applying it, or your "flagpole" will be at half mast for a few weeks.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

Maybe my translation confused things a little. Maybe this is a better translation of what I am getting (not the same saltpeter as you are talking about).

Kalkammonsalpeter is a nitrogen fertilizer with 26% N and 10% approx. it consists of a mixture of 74% NH4NO3 nitrate of ammonia and 26% CaCO3 calcium carbonate

Is that understandable? The actual description is in German.

Thanks, Dave

Plumcrazy · Mar 16, 2009

Oops, my bad. Sorry.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

Think I can use this stuff without ending up in the hospital or ziplock bag? Or, do I even need to fertilize again?

Dave

Kirk Grau · Mar 16, 2009

Hey Dave,

Was over at a neighbors recently chatting while leaning on a fence near a gate. Started noticing that he had "some" grass where I remembered mud. Asked him what he did and turns out he spread some gravel at the gate to improve footing. Looks like it kind of firmed up the soil a little bit so grass was not always being churned up. Stand was not lush and thick, but it did look hardy and from a distance it looked good. Might be something to think about regarding your topic a few weeks ago.

Kirk

Spook · Mar 16, 2009

I would think about some soil tests before I bought the fertilizer.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

We'll see. Got tired of wading in mud at the house while waiting on dryer weather to dig up and lay pavers in my back yard where I go with the tractor and covered the area with 16-32mm limestone and have been packing it. I'll either leave it at that or smooth it off and lay pavers on top so it'll be high enough to get rid of any water problems. The other places that I was talking about are pretty sloppy now. Depending on how many horses I have to keep there, I think I'll just increase the size of the paddock with pavers and cut pasture access completely when it's so nasty. It's all a work in progress.......

Dave

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

I'm not a registered farmer and don't own the land I'm using so I can't get the soil tested (long story). The local farmers say that the horses fertilize enough except for nitrogen..... and recommend the stuff I translated.

Dave

thurlow · Mar 16, 2009

RE: losing fertilizer to the air.........I doubt that you lost any P or K; how much N you lost (through denitrification, evaporation, etc) depends to a large extent on what formulation you use, with Urea generally being the most volatile.

mazemeister · Mar 16, 2009

you don't have to be "registered" (not even sure what that would entail- i farm full time for a living and I'm not registered anywhere) or own the land (I don't) to get soil samples analyzed. You just have to pay the fee per sample and mail in about a pint of soil. There is a technique to gathering soil cores- basically you use your tool to gather a single plug from many spots "randomly" distributed from the field- but avoiding field edges, sandy spots, low spots, etc- to get a representative sample. Then you mix up all that soil and take a small bit of that for the plastic bag to mail in. Here in NY we use Cornell's soil lab, but I'd expect all the land grant colleges and maybe more offer that service. I think it's about 15 bucks per sample.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

(quoted from post at 05:19:48 03/16/09) you don't have to be "registered" (not even sure what that would entail- i farm full time for a living and I'm not registered anywhere) or own the land (I don't) to get soil samples analyzed. .

I'm in Germany. Wish it was that simple here. Maybe I'll ask a farmer to test my stuff as if it were his.

Dave

olgentdc · Mar 16, 2009

Yea -Boy !, it can become a bomb !,,..I have never used saltpeter , But have heard there is value for what you described ... Speaking of Bombs , I know of a guy who picked up a 30gallon drum of diesel fuel , filled the 35 gallon truck tank too , Then picked up 5000lbs of urea on the same truck , ALL at the SAME CO-OP.trying to save a few bucks before the price went crazy on both . manager walks out and mused ,, and told him he had all the makings of a MAJOR DISASTER !!..the guy went on to spread urea and fuel his tractor some 10 miles away on winding county roads ..never heard of an explosion . Golly sometimes Ya gotta STOP and think !

mazemeister · Mar 16, 2009

ah.. ok.. that would explain that! Out of curiosity, who does soil analysis in Germany? and what does it entail to be a registered farmer?

as for the original question... my understanding is that P and K will still be there- they get washed in whenever it does rain. N is the wild card. If the N was in the form of urea, i believe the reaction is it absorbs water from the air, converts to ammonia, and evaporates. ammonium nitrate is supposed to go into the ground without any rain- good for that application. other forms of N like ammonium sulfate, MAP, etc i'm not too sure about. i guess look at the grass- is it dark green or yellow? even if the fert did some good back in june, it will probably need more nitrogen this year anyway unless you've got a legume in there.

kyhayman · Mar 16, 2009

It depends on what they locally call saltpeter or saltpetre. It may be either potassium nitrate or sodium nitrate. Both are strong oxidizers and can be used in explosives. Urea is both stronger, as in more actual N per pound, and is stable.

As to needing it, I cant call that from here. My guess is yes, but I have no technical frame of reference to the soils and climate in Germany.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

(quoted from post at 07:57:33 03/16/09) Out of curiosity, who does soil analysis in Germany? and what does it entail to be a registered farmer?

.

Several places do the analysis. To be a registered farmer, breeder, etc you have to prove a knowledge of what you are doing (in our case, breeding/raising horses), have a minimum amount of land (owned or rented with a contract), carry a liability insurance, have a seperate tax #, and show in and out money. We are working on the registration, which isn't a bad deal for several reasons, just time consuming. After the registration is complete, I can have my soil checked for free.

Dave

Mike (WA) · Mar 16, 2009

Looks like you are further down the road to outright socialism than we are, but we're catchin' up!

GeneMO · Mar 16, 2009

My bet it he told you to use ammonium nitrate, not salt peter. As far as I know you can't even buy salt peter (potassium nitrate) in large quantities.

Saltpeter is one of the ingredients in Black powder, along with charcoal and sulphur. It was supposedly given to soldiers to lower their s*x drive, not sure if that is an old wives tale or not.

Ammonium nitrate can be mixed with diesel or racing fuel to make "Amfol" which is a powerful explosive, use to blow up the Federal building in OK city.

Ammonium Nitrate if a better fertilizer than Urea, which will volatize on a hot day. We always used ammonium nitrate instead of Urea on pastures. Generally it is more expensive.

Gene

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

There is a brighter side to it...I was content in staying a private hobby, but the thing that forced the issue is: a farmer can build a building on his property up to 100 sq meters with a poured floor/foundation without a permit or submitting plans. I built 2 18 sq meter pole type sheds and and had several offices out all wanting money and blood. One was built 2 years ago and noone said anything but the one this year got someone's attention. They got there just as I was finishing the last rafter and told me to stop so I have a frame with tarps for walls and roof sheltering 2 horses. So, get my farm registration and I can keep the buildings, buy cheaper feed, fuel, supplies (7% tax instead of 19%), cheaper license plates on my tractor and ATV, and a few other goodies that won't cost a dime because we'll never make enough to have to PAY taxes on the deal. All because of a building. Could have put up a tent or Teepee and everything would have been peachy.
The biggest perk is, my health insurance only pays after a deductible and doesn't cover some minor stuff. With the insurance we have to carry (cost about 100 bucks a year) if myself or anyone gets hurt on the property, 100% of medical expenses are covered to include follow up for however long it takes and disability payments if required. Not bad huh???

Anonymous-0 · Mar 16, 2009

(quoted from post at 08:50:19 03/16/09) My bet it he told you to use ammonium nitrate,
Gene

You're right!!! After some more digging and asking the hazmat guys down the hall, that's what it is.

Dave

Jerry/MT · Mar 16, 2009

If you don't have a really sandy soil and if you didn't use urea as a source of nitrogen, in all probablility the nitrogen is in the soil and it will be available to your grass this Spring. Urea used in temperatures above 60-65 oF volatilizes a large percentage into the atmosphere and you loose it.

Salpeter??? and fertilizer.

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